Whatever happened to the gods, anyways?

TwoHeadsBarking

First Post
Oh. . . well do you know where it happened?

It sounds like some of that information would be useful in the wiki, even if it just ends up being a physical description and a link.

Sure. Here is where Tander was visited. He died a few rounds later. Here is where Lorik is visited, and soon afterwards Don I disappeared. I think Palindrome was once visited by the gods too, but I doubt he counts since he didn't believe in them, and, in fact, he would use the visitation as proof that they didn't exist.

Both of these were near-death experiences (very near death, in the first case) so they might not be entirely reliable.
 

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covaithe

Explorer
I'm mostly skimming, since I don't have strong opinions on this subject, but one thing caught my eye: the claim that Lauto/Hadeys lives in a great cube of force. I remember in the very early days of L4W, at least one of his first clerics claimed that Lauto lived in an invisible castle. This was clearly a reference to invisiblecastle.com, suggesting that Lauto had control over the fates of mortals. But I thought it was cool enough that it stuck in my mind, and I kind of hoped it would catch on. Did it? I'm not sure, but I still think it's cool.
 

Ozymandias79

First Post
Also Soldier was visited by Merkari in his guise of Dheus Silverwater, although Soldier doesn't know it. Then again he himself is an evidence of the gods existence and their tampering of the world as he was created by them directly although a certain god(again Merkari) forgot to implement him with the complete knowledge of his mission instead he got something very vague and left him very childish as knowledge of world was also left out and Merkari tried to fix that as he adopted that disguise of the mortal Dheus Silverwater which gave some dubious results ;):D

now I gonna get back to write my reply to TwoHeadBarking and take another slice of my birthday cake

Now on the 29th of October 30 years of age
Ozymandias79
 


ScorpiusRisk

First Post
EDIT: Congrats Ozy!

Ok, looks like I have a little time again. I'll take a crack at expanding some of these.

Peresefa

Original Text: Peresefa's Clerics often have the Channel Divinity feat: Armor of Bahamut which they sometimes call Proserphones Ward (for her blessing alone can help against Lauto's grasp)

Proposed Text:
AKA: Reaper Queen, Raven Queen, Everwalking One, Iron Queen, the Maiden and the Crone
Favored weapon: “Soul harvester” scythe
Portfolio: Life, Death, Seasons, growth, decay, ravens, harvest, undead, shadar-kai, revenants, warlocks
Suggested Chanel Divinty Feat: Armor of Bahamut which is sometimes called Proserphones Ward (for her blessing alone can help against Lauto's grasp)


Myth's


The Seasons: Daughter of Joven and one of the old gods, her mother was displeased by the ways of the new gods and did not let her wander the heavens. Instead, Peresefa was hidden away on the world. Despite this, or perhaps because of this, many of the gods continued to seek her out in an attempt to court her. One by one the gods failed
, until finally Lauto took Peresefa into his realm by brute force.

Apoli was perhaps the most upset of all the gods, for he sorely desired Peresfa's love. In anger he turned away from the world, and slowly the world lost the warmth of the sun.

Concerned for the safety of all their works, the gods convinced Lauto to let Peresefa wander upon the world for part of the year, that she might gather souls for him. He conceded, and each year entreats his wife to go and gather souls upon the earth, and so Apoli continues to turn his warming gaze towards the earth and then away, each and every year.

True Name Calling: It is generally believed that the name of Peresefa is not safe to speak. When ever it is spoken you risk the goddess hearing you, and she may come to take your soul. In it's place people will call her Cor'eya or one of her many aliases.

Shadow-Elves: When the drow were exiled from the Imperium many. many years ago, some found themselves at odds with their demon worshiping brethren.

This group escaped into the Shadowfell, and asked Lauto for protection. He granted it, but in exchange, changed them. No longer were they dark on the outside but now more closely resembled, the elladrin who drove them away to begin with. Lauto, then in turn, gifted the race onto his wife Persefa as a wedding gift. While she seemed ill at ease with such a gift, she has claimed dominion over them to this day.

Different groups tell this tale in very different lights. A common version of the Imperium claims that the original Shadar-kai took their own life, so ashamed they were of the disgrace they brough upon the nation. Lauto fell upon them, hoping to reproduce the great armies of the Imperium in his own image.


Meraki

Original text: Merkari's Clerics often have the Channel Divinity feat: Corellon’s Grace which they sometimes call Merkari's Grace

Proposed Text:
AKA: the speedster, trickster god, the half divine, the twelth
Favored weapon: “Caduceus” staff
Portfolio: Halflings, thieves, spies, games, jokes, medicine, rogues, heralds, travel, commerce, portals
Suggested Channel Divinity Feat: Corellon’s Grace which is sometimes called Merkari's Grace

Appearances: Merkari has appeared to players directly. You may find reference Here and Here.

Myth's

Birth: Meraki is the son of Joven and one of the primordials. Its is said that while he inherited many noble qualities from his father, he has many still of his lesser parent, including the ability to take on many forms, and his tendancy to steal and deceive.

Slayer: When the world was still young, but after the greatest of the primordials were imprissoned the gods faced a new foe, and the heavens were invaded by abominations from the far realm. The gods did not recognize the danger immediately, being unfamiliar with the strange beings. Merkari however, being clever, and familiar with the dangerous shifiting forms of the Elemental Chaos recognized what was happening. Meraki quickly began an attack on Gibberath, a giant mass of eyes and teeth, which the creatures used as a central tactical leader, being able to see all the heavens.

Quickly crafting a spell, Meraki shut each of Gibberath's eyes one by one, till the giant was asleep and then slew it. Without any organization the gods rallied and push the creatures back, though some escaped to the world below. Meraki plucked the eyes and presented it to Juna, in the tail of beautiful bird, and from then on Meraki was accepted among the gods, as fully one of their own.

Traveling God: Hermes has the gift of travel, having the innate ability to traverse from the astral heavens to the world below quickly and easily. He is also one of the few who can travel into the Lauto's dominion and back again. Those who are traveling on long roads, or via portal, especially when you're crossing planar barriers, would be well to make sacrifices to the god so he will guide you safely on your path.
 

Ozymandias79

First Post
a. One at-will can't benefit from two domain feats at the same time. Each successive domain feat that benefits the same at-will is less useful than the first one you take. I didn't want to mechanically weaken any of the gods. Too bad. You could boost the hell out of Hand of Radiance with Winter and Undeath otherwise. 1d4+4+wis cold and necrotic damage, three targets. Add Moon for a Reflex debuff too. WotC caught that one.

b. Remember that whole "fewer options for Divine characters" you were worried about a few posts back? If all of Merkari's domains boost Sacred Flame, then how does that not limit Merkari's clerics?

c. As it turned out, the above reasons didn't matter one little bit. Vena was the only god who had multiple domains benefiting the same at-will. And even with her it was only with adding Life as a third domain. If there was a strong third match for her, I would have taken it regardless of the mechanics.

As for why certain gods made the cut and others didn't, I think you're going to have to talk to Ata about that. As I understand it, he pretty much wrote L4W's religion. I was surprised that Dionysus didn't make the Twelve, but he is one of the old gods, so he wasn't completely forgotten. And Peresefa is L4W's origin story of the Shadar-Kai (they were a wedding present), so she's too important to drop now.

*Sighs* This, by the way, is why I didn't want an official list. It's a whole bunch of opinions. My response to Ozy's list is basically going to come down to "not bad, but I like mine better," which isn't super-helpful. But here I go anyway:

I wouldn't mind giving everyone four domains, except it breaks the Rule of Three, and then Vena has two weak domains rather than just one. Neither of these are particularly serious complaints though.

Joven: I'd switch out Arcane for a domain associated with a more beneficial side of law, like Justice or Civilization. I don't see particularly magical about him.

Juna: Why Poison?

Lauto: Right on. I like Civilization as ritual. I'm sure someone's going to come begging to change his weapon to a scythe, but it's not going to be me.

Netari: Is Luck there because sailors pray that he won't sink them? If so, wouldn't Protection work too? I'm not convinced.

Apoli: I think he needs some art-related domain. Which is too bad, because the four you gave him are nice.

Peresefa: Alright, if one of the Twelve has to take Undeath, it would be her, for the reason you gave. I'd prefer Hope or Torment over Death, because Lauto seems be keeping a tight grip on what's his. It seems strange that's she's the reaver, as that doesn't seem to fit the Greek or L4W mythology. Also, what's a "naestiz"? Google totally failed me.

Vulkar through Merkari: I can hardly argue with these, although maybe Merkari could take Arcane or Darkness instead of Strife. Just a thought.

Dayna: Really? You don't think Freedom works for her? I'd drop Vengeance for it. Well, actually I'd drop Darkness if there was anyone around to pick it up. Maybe it could go to Merkari.

Vena: Blech to Life and Freedom. But those are probably the best matches beyond Love and Madness (although Strife might work). I just can't get excited over them.

Finally, Hekates is not a demigod. She just doesn't belong to the Twelve. Source.

Joven: polymorphing(himself and others), petrification, banishment, blinding and empowering away is but I think taking away destruction for justice is a better deal


Juna:i think it was the serpents she sent after heracles and then the maddening of heracles which made him kill his family IE she POISONED his mind IMHO but if you have a better suggestion than madness and poison, I listen


Lauto: OK


Netari: I agrees with you, THB


Apoli/Dayna: I see them as twins, who are opposites, she can keep a secret while he make it a known fact to the world within hours, she is vengeful while he is forgiving, she is chaste, he, well lets just say, isn't but I also see them as friendly to one another IE a divine character/worshiper of apoli will act in defense of a divine character/worshiper of dayna and also it is other way around


Peresefa: Naestiz is a word I scrambled from Nestis and I admit I did it not very well, I see them as sharing the death domain together as (loving) husband and wife and also while Lauto don't like undead, his wife doens't agree with about resurrecting people, also she doesn't like gambling nor his gambling buddy Merkari and while he can be bartered with, she won't do that which has led to her nickname “the iron queen” (some say it was first said by Lauto to Merkari while they were gambling and were commenting about not getting caught by her, although he said “my beloved Iron Queen”). Also I been tinkering with the idea of Hekate being a child of their union


Vulkar through Merkari: Oll Klear


Vena:OK


comments, plz
 

ScorpiusRisk

First Post
Apoli/Dayna: I see them as twins, who are opposites, she can keep a secret while he make it a known fact to the world within hours, she is vengeful while he is forgiving, she is chaste, he, well lets just say, isn't but I also see them as friendly to one another IE a divine character/worshiper of apoli will act in defense of a divine character/worshiper of dayna and also it is other way around

I like that. Makes for good story telling and rp. I'd like to see a little right up there.


Peresefa: Naestiz is a word I scrambled from Nestis and I admit I did it not very well, I see them as sharing the death domain together as (loving) husband and wife and also while Lauto don't like undead, his wife doens't agree with about resurrecting people, also she doesn't like gambling nor his gambling buddy Merkari and while he can be bartered with, she won't do that which has led to her nickname “the iron queen” (some say it was first said by Lauto to Merkari while they were gambling and were commenting about not getting caught by her, although he said “my beloved Iron Queen”). Also I been tinkering with the idea of Hekate being a child of their union

Works for me. Also, works with the above.
 

TwoHeadsBarking

First Post
I don't think Hekates should be Lauto's daughter. She's already been established as an old god who predates the rise of the Twelve. There are a number of PCs with links to her, so the less we change about her the better.

Also, could we drop Raven Queen from Peresefa's aliases? Maybe it's just me, but I really don't like seeing it there. If WotC wasn't currently using it for their queen of the underworld I'd be fine with it. It's something of a pet peeve of mine when people have characters worship WotC's gods rather than L4W's, and I'd rather not muddy things up.

We really should clear up domains. Does anyone have an objection to allowing people to choose themselves?
 



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