IG's "Those Left Behind" [OOC-2]

industrygothica · Jan 15, 2010

Shayuri said:
Shai strikes me as more of a ranger than a druid anyway, to be honest. He hardly ever casts spells. He's much more martially oriented.

A beastmaster ranger...maybe with a barbarian MC or something...could be quite nice.

Looking around, a beastmaster ranger with a druid multiclass would allow Shai to both keep Dyspeer AND his wild shape ability. jkason worked pretty hard incorporating that first wild shape into the game; he's not going to want to give that up.

renau1g said:
Hmmm...there is a dire wolf mount in CB...you might need to bump it up a bit though as it's a level 5 creature, also they're handled differently as you and the mount can't attack in the same turn.

I'd also suggest looking at the ranger build with the animal companion.

I was bored at work right now so I put together a proposed build for Caerwyn (using the hybrid rules though). Reason I did it is that he had rages in the initial build and seemed like a fairly important part of the character that I didn't want to lose. The paragon class Gray Guard seems to fit his personality perfectly, "Your tactics don't make you popular with others in your god's service" & "the ends justify the means" - like his initial "concepts of quick and dirty justice" from his background section.

That looks pretty good, actually. I glanced at the hybrid rules, and they don't seem all that complicated I guess. Especially since they're in the CB now to keep 'em legal. I'm going to be in a bad way when my ddi subscription runs out in march!

-IG

Friadoc · Jan 15, 2010

I'll dig my 4e books out this weekend, as I've not touched them since this summer, and give them a looksey to see what I can do, or what not. Buurt shouldn't be that hard to do. Plus, I might get more in touch with him as a character by doing a build or conversion of him.

jkason · Jan 15, 2010

industrygothica said:
One of my main concerns now is making sure that Shai gets to keep Dyspeer, as I don't believe druids get animal companions in 4e. Dyspeer has been just as important in this adventure as the PCs--and has just as many kills, I think. It wouldn't feel right moving on without him.

I probably won't have a book for a little while yet, but I had similar concerns. From what I could glean with my limited google-fu, it didn't seem like druids had animal companions, though Shaman's had a 'spirit animal companion.' It wasn't clear to me if that was a real animal or not.

Shayuri said:
Shai strikes me as more of a ranger than a druid anyway, to be honest. He hardly ever casts spells. He's much more martially oriented.

I tend to agree. Shai isn't much of a caster, mostly casting now because of the rather nasty consequences of getting within melee range of a chaos beast. His relationship with Dyspeer is far more central to him as a character than being able to resist fey or cast barkskin or whatever. As his character fits a 'role,' at least in my limited understanding of them, he seems more Defender--or possibly Striker--than Controller (which is what Druids are classified as in 4e)

My only secondary concern is that I built what I thought was a fairly neat character / story arc in to account for Shai's wildshaping, though he's only really used it once. If I have to choose between keeping Dyseer and keeping wild shape, Dyspeer wins. And since I couched Shai's wildshaping in terms of 'beasts within,' and something that makes him more than a little uncomfortable with its implications for his humanity, I don't think it would be out of character to have the 'loss' of that ability work as a character choice.

Now, rangers are Martial instead of Primal, correct? We'd been talking about my picking up the PH2 for Druid stats, and even as I was researching and thought he might not mesh quite so well with Druid ni 4e, it seemed the Primal power source was--at least in name--probably the best suited to Shai. I'm not sure if there's a game effect as far as power source goes, but I suppose that's something else I should consider.

ETA: Looks like IG already covered the wildshaping while I was nattering around being slow.

renau1g · Jan 15, 2010

Power sources really don't effect anything. I'm sure if you want to explain your ranger powers with a more primal flair IG wouldn't begrudge you. After all how they're described is just the fluff. The only thing is the ranger powers are more about his skill with the bow/weapons, rather than being in tune with nature (although in 3e it was similar I think).

Shayuri · Jan 15, 2010

The multiclass with the druid actually has some merit, though it also carries a heavy burden of Multi-Attribute Dependency. Any druid attack powers you gain via feats will have a Wisdom-based attack roll, while your ranger powers will have a Strength based attack roll.

Might be tricky.

If you get PHB2, take a peek at the Warden. It's a Primal Defender that also uses shapeshifting abilities, and I believe its powers are Strength based.

renau1g · Jan 15, 2010

They (wardens) are str-based with either wis or con secondary. Rangers have some decent use for Wis though (although a melee ranger relies on Str, Dex, Con, and Wis), although they get a free bonus feat (toughness) to help them get some extra hp.

jkason · Jan 16, 2010

I'd been wondering about Wardens as I was trying to glean stuff from the internets. Like I said, from what I know of Roles, Shai feels most like a Defender to me (yeah, he always bragged about squishing stuff, but it always seemed more like his way of keeping that stuff from hurting the folk he was with). Primal + Defender seemed to be the Warden. If they do have wildshaping, that might be the best combo with the beastmaster ranger to making a 4e Shai (is it still officially multi-classing in 4e? I thought I read somewhere that you actually just take a few feats / abilities from your 'other class' instead of taking levels in individual classes).

jason

Friadoc · Jan 16, 2010

I'm wondering a few things, including that I wanna play a pure rogue, again...so we'll see what I can work up with Buurt.

Of course, I also wanna play a halfling, again, but that's not something I'll be able to work up. *laughs*

Due to this coming game, as well as a Skype game with a friend of mine, I might turn my DDI back on. We'll see.

renau1g · Jan 16, 2010

jkason said:
I'd been wondering about Wardens as I was trying to glean stuff from the internets. Like I said, from what I know of Roles, Shai feels most like a Defender to me (yeah, he always bragged about squishing stuff, but it always seemed more like his way of keeping that stuff from hurting the folk he was with). Primal + Defender seemed to be the Warden. If they do have wildshaping, that might be the best combo with the beastmaster ranger to making a 4e Shai (is it still officially multi-classing in 4e? I thought I read somewhere that you actually just take a few feats / abilities from your 'other class' instead of taking levels in individual classes).

jason

Yeah the warden is the primal defender. Their daily powers usually involve "wild shaping", like the Form of Winters Herald (level 1), you turn into a mini-elemental I guess, you keep your normal attacks still though.

Multi-classing is different. You take a feat to multi-class, then if you want a certain power from the other class you then take another feat and you get 1 power from that class and lose 1 from your own. The other option is what I did with Caerwyn, is hybrid. It's closer to 3e multi-classing, but you give up a decent amount and take the least of the two classes usually (like if you hybrid a fighter/mage I think you only get the mage proficiencies).

Friadoc said:
I'm wondering a few things, including that I wanna play a pure rogue, again...so we'll see what I can work up with Buurt.

Of course, I also wanna play a halfling, again, but that's not something I'll be able to work up. *laughs*

Due to this coming game, as well as a Skype game with a friend of mine, I might turn my DDI back on. We'll see.

Hmmmm well yeah there's no scouts, but the PHB3 will have a class called the Seeker, the Primal Controller, he's an archer might fit the scout feel. ALthough for them, Wisdom is the most important stat, then Dex

Leif · Jan 16, 2010

Uulark the Paragon!

Ooooh, goodie! One note: I don't think Rhun is too crazy about 4E, at least not yet. Last I checked with him, he turned my 4E game down cold in favor of concentrating on Pathfinder. Ahh, send him off to play with DeWar.

Paragon Cleric -- I like the sound of that.

And, to renau1g: Welcome, Ryan!