Characters with Pounce! ALSO: Fair price for Pounce?

Mistah J · Nov 16, 2009

Hey all!

So, in one of the games I play in we have two characters with the TWF chain. One is a halfling rogue with the Invisible Blade PrC and all sorts of feinting, sneak attack-granting bonuses.

The other is a ranger. One whose looking to be in the style of a primal, or savage, type warrior. So to help him, differentiate from the rogue, he has things like Two-Weapon Rend.

What I would like to offer him is the Pounce ability. Does anyone out there have any ideas on how a PC character could pick this up?

Feats, Magic Items work best but a PrC might be ok too.

Thanks!

EDIT: My next post below talks about the the second question: How powerful a feat do you think the Pounce ability is?

Theroc · Nov 16, 2009

I believe Complete Champion has a variant of Barbarian which grants Pounce at some point. Additionally, from Magic of Incarnum, the Sphinx Claws Soulmeld when bound to the Hands Chakra allows a Full Attack with all natural weapons at the end of a charge. Granted, the chain TWF isn't a natural weapon, perhaps you could houserule something in.

I believe the Magic of Incarnum path would cost 2-3 feats.
One to get the Soulmeld, and one to be able to bind it to the hands chakra.

I realize that wasn't the most helpful thing, but it's all I can come up with atm.

Dragonwriter · Nov 16, 2009

Complete Champion's Lion Totem Barbarian (I think it was...) gives Pounce at level 1.

Tome of Battle offers the Tiger Claw maneuver Pouncing Strike, which can be used through an item, or through levels in Warblade or Swordsage.

Player's Handbook 2 offers a more limited Pounce-like feat, Two-Weapon Pounce, though it only gives 1 attack with each hand, and you lose the +2 attack for charging.

If I remember correctly, the Feral template from Savage Species (not sure, as I don't own the book) gave Pounce, though I could easily be mistaken on that.

Dross · Nov 16, 2009

Mistah J said:
Hey all!

So, in one of the games I play in we have two characters with the TWF chain. One is a halfling rogue with the Invisible Blade PrC and all sorts of feinting, sneak attack-granting bonuses.

The other is a ranger. One whose looking to be in the style of a primal, or savage, type warrior. So to help him, differentiate from the rogue, he has things like Two-Weapon Rend.

What I would like to offer him is the Pounce ability. Does anyone out there have any ideas on how a PC character could pick this up?

Feats, Magic Items work best but a PrC might be ok too.
Thanks!

Two-Weapon Pounce is in the PHB2 (along with Two-Weapon Rend) as part of a charge. he can qualify for it now.

RotW Catfolk Pounce allows a full attack V a charged, flat-footed opponent. (you need to be a catfolk tho'

)

If you want (I'm not sure I do) you can always make another feat above 2WP to allow a full attack on a charge. If so think about the 2W Rend damage.

Mistah J · Nov 16, 2009

Thanks for the answers everyone.

In my search to find a solution, I am pleased to say I have found several. This brings up a new question though.

In addition to what people listed above, I found a few more feats and other ways to get the pounce ability, or something like it. These include:

Two Forgotten Realm regional feats. They require you to be from the right region, you must take it at 1st level (and one requires you to have the rage ability) but they both grant the full pounce attack.

Another is Dire Charge from the Epic Level Handbook. For this one you must be Epic but you get the full pounce attack.

My point is that there is a HUGE swing in the requirements needed to get this ability. So now I am wondering, what exactly is Pounce worth in terms of feats? How powerful is it?

What do you think the prerequisites should be?

Thanks

Dandu · Nov 16, 2009

Dragonwriter said:
If I remember correctly, the Feral template from Savage Species (not sure, as I don't own the book) gave Pounce, though I could easily be mistaken on that.

It does.

Mistah J said:
My point is that there is a HUGE swing in the requirements needed to get this ability. So now I am wondering, what exactly is Pounce worth in terms of feats?

One feat, Martial Study, gives access to the maneuver Pouncing Strike, usable once per encounter.

But why are we dithering around with feats? I can give you a solution that the player can use right now.

Open the Spell Compendium and open it to page 133. You should find this:

Lion''s Charge
Transmutation
Druid 3, Ranger 2
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 Swift Action
Ranger: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round

This spell grants you the Pounce ability, allowing you make a full attack at the end of a charge.

Shin Okada · Nov 16, 2009

Mistah J said:
My point is that there is a HUGE swing in the requirements needed to get this ability. So now I am wondering, what exactly is Pounce worth in terms of feats? How powerful is it?

What do you think the prerequisites should be?

There often is a huge swing in the requirements to get the same thing. Say, getting +3 additional HPs, +1 attack bonus, +1 dodge bonus to AC, making a weapon attack into a touch attack, and so on.

Now, there are so many ways to get pounce ability already. Why do you need to re-estimate the prerequisites?

By the way, I guess the said Rogue Invisible Blade will not be benefited much from pounce ability. How often will he be in the position wich allows him to flank an opponent via charging? And even an invisible blade can use uncanny feint once per round.

And as already pointed out, a Ranger can simply use Lion's Pounce spell. If he want to use it often, buy a wand of Lion's Pounce and Casting Glove (Magic Compendium).

Runestar · Nov 17, 2009

MIC does have a few magic items which allow the wearer to move as a swift action (thus still allowing him to make a full attack).

StreamOfTheSky · Nov 17, 2009

FWIW, the barbarian variant is fairly broken since you get it at level 1 with no need to advance Barbarian afterwards. And the Feral template is abso-freakin'-lutely-never-allowing-it-in-my-game-in-a-million-years broken.

Dandu · Nov 17, 2009

Shin Okada said:
And as already pointed out, a Ranger can simply use Lion's Pounce spell. If he want to use it often, buy a wand of Lion's Pounce and Casting Glove (Magic Compendium).

Or get Wand Chambers installed in your weapons. 100 gp per chamber.

StreamOfTheSky said:
FWIW, the barbarian variant is fairly broken since you get it at level 1 with no need to advance Barbarian afterwards. And the Feral template is abso-freakin'-lutely-never-allowing-it-in-my-game-in-a-million-years broken.

Still more balanced than even a core only full caster.

Come on, isn't it time to throw melee a bone?

You can't even use pounce until 6th level. By then, you need it, or some other powerful option, to keep up.