D&D 4E 4e Pokemon Tabletop RPG
Camelot
Adventurer
Cool, thanks!
Yeah, I do need to separate those three a little bit more, especially History and Legend. You made a good point, and I might get rid of Legend altogether. I just liked the idea of it being based on Wisdom rather than Intelligence.
Streetwise still is important because it represents actively asking around for information, rather than just knowing it or not. You can find out things with Streetwise about not just history, but things you might have known with other skills or things that none of your other skills can help you know.
Yeah, I do need to separate those three a little bit more, especially History and Legend. You made a good point, and I might get rid of Legend altogether. I just liked the idea of it being based on Wisdom rather than Intelligence.
Streetwise still is important because it represents actively asking around for information, rather than just knowing it or not. You can find out things with Streetwise about not just history, but things you might have known with other skills or things that none of your other skills can help you know.
malcolm_n
Adventurer
Here's that work I'd been doing. I got caught up in fixing some obvious issues and started to add to it again. I've paused to post what I have as a rough draft.
Pokemon D20 4E
Pokemon D20 4E
Camelot
Adventurer
That's very cool, Malcolm! There were many things I had already thought of, some things I liked and would like to apply to my system, and some things that I think might tilt balance.
The multiclassing idea is quite genious. I had tried to come up with a parallel, then I gave up and decided not to include it. But Pokemon that have been bred is a great idea! In the Pokemon traits block, it will include the Pokemon's egg groups, and then if you want to pick a "multiclass" feat, it must be of a Pokemon from the same egg group, and you can only pick feats of one Pokemon. Thank you for that idea!
I also thought of this. Trainers (being only the equivalent of a race) don't get feats themselves, but their Pokemon can choose feats that give a bonus to their trainer rather than the Pokemon. For example, one feat might increase the distance the trainer can throw Pokeballs, or could affect the trainer's skills. If you think of it as a parallel to D&D, it fits! When you trade Pokemon, if any trainer feats don't meet the prerequisites of the new trainer, they can be retrained immediately.
The way you did paragon paths and epic destinies is where I think balance will be skewed. Each Pokemon has no more than three evolutions, and there are three tiers, so the first tier is the Pokemon's lowest evolution, the second tier is the Pokemon's second evolution, and the third tier is the Pokemon's highest evolution. The way I see it, each Pokemon should get their own epic destiny instead of two paragon paths, because they don't have the same effects. However, those paths or destinies might apply more to the trainer than the Pokemon, just as the Pokemon can pick feats that apply more to the trainer than the Pokemon (see last paragraph).
I'll post what I have for Bulbasaur in a second, because I think it's interesting how we have different ideas of how it fits into D&D roles.
The multiclassing idea is quite genious. I had tried to come up with a parallel, then I gave up and decided not to include it. But Pokemon that have been bred is a great idea! In the Pokemon traits block, it will include the Pokemon's egg groups, and then if you want to pick a "multiclass" feat, it must be of a Pokemon from the same egg group, and you can only pick feats of one Pokemon. Thank you for that idea!
I also thought of this. Trainers (being only the equivalent of a race) don't get feats themselves, but their Pokemon can choose feats that give a bonus to their trainer rather than the Pokemon. For example, one feat might increase the distance the trainer can throw Pokeballs, or could affect the trainer's skills. If you think of it as a parallel to D&D, it fits! When you trade Pokemon, if any trainer feats don't meet the prerequisites of the new trainer, they can be retrained immediately.
The way you did paragon paths and epic destinies is where I think balance will be skewed. Each Pokemon has no more than three evolutions, and there are three tiers, so the first tier is the Pokemon's lowest evolution, the second tier is the Pokemon's second evolution, and the third tier is the Pokemon's highest evolution. The way I see it, each Pokemon should get their own epic destiny instead of two paragon paths, because they don't have the same effects. However, those paths or destinies might apply more to the trainer than the Pokemon, just as the Pokemon can pick feats that apply more to the trainer than the Pokemon (see last paragraph).
I'll post what I have for Bulbasaur in a second, because I think it's interesting how we have different ideas of how it fits into D&D roles.
Camelot
Adventurer
Bulbasaur
TRAITS
Role: Controller and leader.
Type: Grass and poison.
Primary Abilities: Wisdom
Secondary Abilities: Dexterity, Intelligence
Tertiary Abilities: Strength
Size: Small
Speed: 5 squares
Vision: Normal
Armor Bonus to AC: +2
Armor Type: Light
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Will
Physical Weapons: Body, Head
Special Weapons: Leaves, Vines
Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 4
Healing Surges per Day: 6 + Constitution modifier
FEATURES
Bulbasaur’s Strategy: Choose one of the following options.
- Leaf Strategy: You gain the leaf armor power. Once per encounter, when you use an attack using leaves, you can push any targets of the attack a number of squares equal to your Dexterity modifier.
- Vine Strategy: You gain the disrupting vine power. Once per encounter, when you use an attack using vines, you can add your Intelligence modifier to the first attack roll you make during that attack.
Leech Seed: You have the leech seed power.
Vine Grab: You can make a grab attack against a target up to 5 squares away from you. Use your Wisdom modifier for attack rolls to grab and move grabbed targets. You can move normally without having to move your grabbed target as long as you remain within 5 squares of it. You can also move a grabbed target without moving yourself as long as you remain within 5 squares of it, though you still must succeed on an attack roll. Additionally, you can pick up or manipulate objects within 5 squares of you. Grabbing and manipulating objects require the same actions they normally do. You cannot grab targets or manipulate objects to which you do not have line of effect, and you must retain line of effect if you move a grabbed target or object. You provoke opportunity attacks by grabbing or manipulating targets that are not adjacent to you.
Vine Slide: You have the vine slide power.
POWERS
FEATURE POWERS
Disrupting Vine Bulbasaur Feature
Encounter * Grass, Special
Immediate Interrupt Ranged vines
Trigger: An enemy within 5 squares of you targets an ally with an attack.
Target: The triggering enemy within range
Effect: The target takes a penalty to its attack roll equal to your Intelligence modifier.
Leaf Armor Bulbasaur Feature
Encounter * Grass, Special
Immediate Interrupt Close burst leaves
Trigger: An enemy targets an ally within 5 squares of you with an attack.
Target: The ally targeted by the triggering attack within range
Effect: The ally gains a bonus to all defenses equal to your Dexterity modifier for the duration of the triggering attack.
Leech Seed Bulbasaur Feature
Encounter * Grass, Healing
Minor Action Ranged 10
Target: One Pokémon
Attack: Wisdom + 2 vs. Fortitude
Hit: The target takes ongoing 5 grass damage (save ends). When the target takes damage from this power, choose an ally or yourself within 5 squares of the target to regain hit points equal to half the damage the target took.
Level 11: +4 bonus to attack, and ongoing 10 grass damage.
Level 21: +6 bonus to attack, and ongoing 15 grass damage.
Vine Slide Bulbasaur Feature
At-Will
Move Action Ranged 5
Target: One ally within range
Effect: You slide the target a number of squares equal to your Strength modifier (minimum 1). You must retain line of effect for the duration of the slide.
I don't have any powers yet, but what I'm going to do is do full write-ups of powers for each Pokemon, like D&D classes, instead of shared powers. I tried shared powers at first, but found that they were horribly imbalanced for several reasons. What do you think of how I've made Bulbasaur?
TRAITS
Role: Controller and leader.
Type: Grass and poison.
Primary Abilities: Wisdom
Secondary Abilities: Dexterity, Intelligence
Tertiary Abilities: Strength
Size: Small
Speed: 5 squares
Vision: Normal
Armor Bonus to AC: +2
Armor Type: Light
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Will
Physical Weapons: Body, Head
Special Weapons: Leaves, Vines
Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 4
Healing Surges per Day: 6 + Constitution modifier
FEATURES
Bulbasaur’s Strategy: Choose one of the following options.
- Leaf Strategy: You gain the leaf armor power. Once per encounter, when you use an attack using leaves, you can push any targets of the attack a number of squares equal to your Dexterity modifier.
- Vine Strategy: You gain the disrupting vine power. Once per encounter, when you use an attack using vines, you can add your Intelligence modifier to the first attack roll you make during that attack.
Leech Seed: You have the leech seed power.
Vine Grab: You can make a grab attack against a target up to 5 squares away from you. Use your Wisdom modifier for attack rolls to grab and move grabbed targets. You can move normally without having to move your grabbed target as long as you remain within 5 squares of it. You can also move a grabbed target without moving yourself as long as you remain within 5 squares of it, though you still must succeed on an attack roll. Additionally, you can pick up or manipulate objects within 5 squares of you. Grabbing and manipulating objects require the same actions they normally do. You cannot grab targets or manipulate objects to which you do not have line of effect, and you must retain line of effect if you move a grabbed target or object. You provoke opportunity attacks by grabbing or manipulating targets that are not adjacent to you.
Vine Slide: You have the vine slide power.
POWERS
FEATURE POWERS
Disrupting Vine Bulbasaur Feature
Encounter * Grass, Special
Immediate Interrupt Ranged vines
Trigger: An enemy within 5 squares of you targets an ally with an attack.
Target: The triggering enemy within range
Effect: The target takes a penalty to its attack roll equal to your Intelligence modifier.
Leaf Armor Bulbasaur Feature
Encounter * Grass, Special
Immediate Interrupt Close burst leaves
Trigger: An enemy targets an ally within 5 squares of you with an attack.
Target: The ally targeted by the triggering attack within range
Effect: The ally gains a bonus to all defenses equal to your Dexterity modifier for the duration of the triggering attack.
Leech Seed Bulbasaur Feature
Encounter * Grass, Healing
Minor Action Ranged 10
Target: One Pokémon
Attack: Wisdom + 2 vs. Fortitude
Hit: The target takes ongoing 5 grass damage (save ends). When the target takes damage from this power, choose an ally or yourself within 5 squares of the target to regain hit points equal to half the damage the target took.
Level 11: +4 bonus to attack, and ongoing 10 grass damage.
Level 21: +6 bonus to attack, and ongoing 15 grass damage.
Vine Slide Bulbasaur Feature
At-Will
Move Action Ranged 5
Target: One ally within range
Effect: You slide the target a number of squares equal to your Strength modifier (minimum 1). You must retain line of effect for the duration of the slide.
I don't have any powers yet, but what I'm going to do is do full write-ups of powers for each Pokemon, like D&D classes, instead of shared powers. I tried shared powers at first, but found that they were horribly imbalanced for several reasons. What do you think of how I've made Bulbasaur?
malcolm_n
Adventurer
My only concern for individual powers is there are currently 486 pokemon, about 170 or so would translate into level 1 classes. Add to that, we can likely expect the fifth generation to start previewing within the next year. My goal (and what I'm gonna continue doing in my parallel project at this point), is to find a roughly equivalent dnd power for each move in pokemon. Then, I can list the powers each pokemon gets as they grow. Roles won't play out the same in pokemon, with only features and the use of paragon paths to define them moreso than powers. Over all, if you want to dedicate that kind of time to give each pokemon it's own moveset, more power to you. I've got about 5 big projects I'm focusing on right now just with D&D.
As for the powers you've listed, they all look okay to me.
In regards to the use of extra paragon paths, It's something that was there from before. Now that it's been a year or so and I have a better grasp of the rules, I'm looking for a way to better represent the third tier pokemon, and I just haven't figured out how to do it. The suggestion of making epic destinies more related does fit pretty well, but then I'd be afraid they'll blend too much to warrant separation.
As for the powers you've listed, they all look okay to me.
In regards to the use of extra paragon paths, It's something that was there from before. Now that it's been a year or so and I have a better grasp of the rules, I'm looking for a way to better represent the third tier pokemon, and I just haven't figured out how to do it. The suggestion of making epic destinies more related does fit pretty well, but then I'd be afraid they'll blend too much to warrant separation.
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I've been reading through this, and I think it would be massively simpler if, instead of making pokemon new classes, and trainers new races, you make trainers simply be there, and have a few simple abilities key to being a trainer (such as swap and cheer. The pokemon should be the focus of the battle, and as such should be the ones with the powers and abilities.
Pokemon themselves should probably be handled like Companions, in that they have their own powers and abilities and features, but use a simpler format. As someone said earlier, the simpler you go, the better.
The companion rules seem well fitted for this, and if not companion rules, than maybe simply the monster rules.
Pokemon themselves should probably be handled like Companions, in that they have their own powers and abilities and features, but use a simpler format. As someone said earlier, the simpler you go, the better.
The companion rules seem well fitted for this, and if not companion rules, than maybe simply the monster rules.
malcolm_n
Adventurer
Simpler, yes; but that's not the goal of it, per se. I can't speak for Camelot, but I very much want to include the pokemon as more than just a companion, and the trainers help keep the role play element. They both have very important parts to play, hence the way we've both worked to include them.
Having gone this far, to step back and just handwave them as familiars or companions would sour the work already put in. I think it'd be better to look at how to better include them as they've already been discussed, rather than suggest a complete reboot.
Having gone this far, to step back and just handwave them as familiars or companions would sour the work already put in. I think it'd be better to look at how to better include them as they've already been discussed, rather than suggest a complete reboot.
Camelot
Adventurer
I can see how making them companions would make sense at first, but there's no way it would work without massive rules tweaking, and then it would no longer be 4e. The companion rules assume that the PC is fighting alongside the companion, or rather the other way around, but in Pokemon, the companion is doing all the fighting. The trainer stands in the background and only interferes when throwing Pokeballs, administering first aid, or using items on the Pokemon. Thus, the Pokemon are more complex than the trainers.
I know documenting 486 Pokemon as full D&D classes is a large task, but I'm taking it one step at a time. Also, those 486 Pokemon are connected in evolution chains, so a great number of them are represented only by paragon paths and epic destinies, and the base Pokemon represents the whole class. I don't know how many this reduces it too, but it's still a large amount, though not quite almost 500.
I know it's tempting to try and convince me not to attempt this crazy project, but I'm set on how the mechanics work for the most part. I just need help with details, such as mechanics of specific powers or feats, and ideas for features and such. Thanks for the input so far!
I know documenting 486 Pokemon as full D&D classes is a large task, but I'm taking it one step at a time. Also, those 486 Pokemon are connected in evolution chains, so a great number of them are represented only by paragon paths and epic destinies, and the base Pokemon represents the whole class. I don't know how many this reduces it too, but it's still a large amount, though not quite almost 500.
I know it's tempting to try and convince me not to attempt this crazy project, but I'm set on how the mechanics work for the most part. I just need help with details, such as mechanics of specific powers or feats, and ideas for features and such. Thanks for the input so far!
malcolm_n
Adventurer
If you treat the lowest evolution of a line as the class, there are about 178. If you also include pokemon that don't evolve at all, you're pushing around 240-250. Personally, I'm gonna stick to weak non-evolution pokemon and lowest evolution pokemon as classes (so around 215 individual "classes.") Mid-range pokemon that don't evolve (kangaskhan, Ditto, etc) will be paragon paths along with second tier evolutions. And, I did decide to follow your lead on making third tier pokemon the epic destinies alongside legendary pokemon like mewtwo and lugia.
