Converting Oriental Adventures creatures

freyar · Mar 27, 2013

Not sure you caught my post above on the veils...

Anyway, Hive Mind as written makes them sound like separate critters, but I agree we can use a modification of it.

Do you agree on giving them a single pool of hp?

Cleon · Mar 28, 2013

freyar said:
Not sure you caught my post above on the veils...

You mean this one?

freyar said:
Uhhh, hmm. Should we make this a single monster with seven bodies or seven linked monsters?

EDIT: cross post. I tend to agree with you. I think I'd just make a single pool of hp and treat the bodies something like the heads of a hydra somehow.

I replied to that in #1340

freyar said:
Anyway, Hive Mind as written makes them sound like separate critters, but I agree we can use a modification of it.

Yes, I was going to tweak it a bit so that all of the "bodies" have to stay in the same general area. Haven't quite decided what'll happen if a body is forced outside their "safe distance". I'm thinking they should vanish and reappear closer to the rest of the Maidens.

It could do with a rename. Maybe "One Soul In Many Ghosts" or "Many Bodies, Single Spirit"?

freyar said:
Do you agree on giving them a single pool of hp?

Yes, my favored solution is:

Cleon said:
Assuming we give it Charisma 18 and Unholy Toughness:

Hit Dice: 8d12+32 (84 hp)
Each of the Veiled Maidens' bodies has 24 hit points. Destroying a body deals 10 hit points of damage to the creature, while destroying the last of the bodies destroys the Veiled Maidens.

Cleon · Mar 28, 2013

I've been finding it a bit difficult deciding whether we should treat "The Veiled Maidens" as singular or plural.

While technically they are a single being, it just feels odd writing "the Veiled Maidens is [something]".

My mind tells me to make it singular in all cases, and use "body" or "bodies" for the separate manifestations of the Veiled Maidens, my grammatical heart feels a bit leery about the idea.

freyar · Apr 8, 2013

I think your mind is right.

I think I missed post 1340 in making my last post! Lot's of cross-posting here! Making the bodies work like tentacles is a good idea.

Will have to get back to you later...

Cleon · Apr 9, 2013

freyar said:
I think your mind is right.

I think I missed post 1340 in making my last post! Lot's of cross-posting here! Making the bodies work like tentacles is a good idea.

Will have to get back to you later...

I'll update the Veiled Maidens Working Draft with the provisional hit points and "bodies".

As for the "Hive Mind" and "Tentacle Bodies" questions, how about this:

Multiple Bodies (Ex): The Veiled Maidens is a single being with seven bodies. Each body has 24 hit points. Destroying a body does 10 points of damage to the Veiled Maidens. If the Veiled Maidens Damage is reduced to a single body, damage to that body also damages the Veiled Maidens.

Attacks that affect a certain number of creatures usually treat a Veiled Maidens' bodies as if they were separate creatures. For example, a disintegrate or halt undead only affects the body or bodies targeted by the spell. However, attacks that target a creature's soul or being, such as trap the soul or control undead, treat the Veiled Maidens as a single creature, affecting all its bodies simultaneously.

The Veiled Maidens' bodies are mystically bound together and must remain within 100 ft. [?] feet of all the other bodies. Any body that strays outside this limit immediately vanishes and reappears somewhere between the other Veiled Maidens' bodies. The body must reappear in a clear space that the Veiled Maidens has line-of-effect to.

Multiple Perspectives (Ex): So long as the Veiled Maidens has more than one body it cannot be flanked and gains a +4 racial bonus on Spot and Search checks (this bonus is incorporated in the stats above). If one of the Veiled Maidens bodies is aware of a particular danger, they all are. If one body is not flat-footed, none of them are.

freyar · Apr 24, 2013

I think these look good, and I'm ok with the 100 ft limit. Have to get running. What's next for these?

Cleon · Apr 24, 2013

freyar said:
I think these look good, and I'm ok with the 100 ft limit.

Updating the Veiled Maidens Working Draft.

freyar said:
What's next for these?

We'd better figure out the rest of the basics - ability scores and AC.

The original monster has "S 15, I 18, W 15, D 15, C 16, Ch 16" listed for stats.

That looks a pretty good start to me, except I'd rather the Dex be higher. We'd also better increase the Charisma to 18 so it matches what we need for the HP to work out.

So, how about Str 15, Dex 19, Con —, Int 18, Wis 15, Cha 18?

As for AC, the original only had AC 8, which is definitely way too low. I think it'd be better to decide on a target AC and fiddle the numbers to match it. We don't need that high an AC since it's main defensive trick is having multiple bodies.

How about giving it a deflection bonus equal to its Charisma bonus, resulting in:

Armor Class: 18 (+4 Dex, +4 deflection), touch 18, flat-footed 14.

freyar · Apr 26, 2013

I'll go for all that.

Cleon · Apr 27, 2013

freyar said:
I'll go for all that.

Updating the Veiled Maidens Working Draft.

Okay, I guess we need to start talking special abilities.

We've got a bunch of martial techniques to interpret, but I think we'd better decide on the "Martial Training" first. The original monster was a 3rd level monk, so I'm thinking we should give her something like the Monklike trait we came up with for the Sea Bonze:

Monklike (Ex): A sea bonze possesses the AC bonus, base attack bonus, base saving throw bonuses, flurry of blows, ki strike, and unarmed strike damage of a 6th-level monk. A sea bonze that later takes monk levels adds its inherent monklike abilities to those of a true monk. Thus, a 4th-level sea bonze monk possesses the AC bonus, base attack bonus, base saving throw bonuses, flurry of blows, ki strike, and unarmed strike damage of a 10th-level monk.

Although since she actually was a monk, it might be easier just giving her all the abilities of an X level monk.

Ex-Monk (Ex): The Veiled Maidens possesses the AC bonus, base attack bonus, base saving throw bonuses, flurry of blows, unarmed strike damage and all the special abilities of an 8th-level monk. The Maidens' undead state prevents it from using its Purity of Body and Wholeness of Body abilities. Since it is no longer lawful, the Veiled Maidens cannot gain new levels as a monk.

Hmm, that would give her a 1d10 unarmed strike attack. That seems way too much considering she has seven bodies to attack with. We could say she can only attack with her veil, I suppose, "due to the nature of her curse" or somesuch. Also the AC bonus will throw off my pretty numbers. I prefer something closer to the Sea Bonze's ability.

Something like:

Monk Training (Ex): The Veiled Maidens possesses the base attack bonus, base saving throw bonuses, bonus feats, evasion, ki strike and slow fall abilities of an 8th-level monk. The Veiled Maidens cannot gain levels as a monk since it is not lawful.

Hmm, the original Veiled Maiden was only a 3rd level Monk, and I don't think she needs a lot of the above powers. We could limit the monk tricks to 3rd level, like we gave the Ninja Spirit Shadow.

Martial Artistry (Ex): The Veiled Maidens possesses the bonus feats, evasion, and unarmed strike abilities of a 3rd-level monk. Furthermore, the Veiled Maidens possesses the base attack bonus and base saving throw bonuses of a monk of a level equal to its Hit Dice.

Currently I prefer the last "Martial Artistry" option.

freyar · May 12, 2013

Yes, I prefer the last option, as well.

Just FYI, I'm probably going to keep my responses short until I can get caught up a little. Of course, hard to say quite how soon that will be...