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  1. #81
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    I'm fine with just the despair aura, but don't mind a "suicidal urge" targeted ability.
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  • #82
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    Hmm. How about this? Most people the suicide spirit kills are mangled in some horrifying way. But, if the spirit manages to get someone else to kill him/herself through the "suicidal urge," then they both vanish to another plan for the replacement idea?

  • #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by freyar View Post
    Hmm. How about this? Most people the suicide spirit kills are mangled in some horrifying way. But, if the spirit manages to get someone else to kill him/herself through the "suicidal urge," then they both vanish to another plan for the replacement idea?
    Sounds workable, although I still prefer its replacement to leave a corpse that is resistant to raising it looks like we're heading for a vanishing corpse approach.

    I'd like to give it a "Create Replacement" ability tied to its "Drive To Suicide" ability, though.

    Shall we start roughing something out? Upon reflection, I prefer a modifier confusion for its suicidal urge attack.
    Suicidal Urge: A suicide spirit can instill a temporary state of suicidal madness in a single living humanoid. Suicidal Urge has a range of (200?) feet and is a mind-affecting compulsion effect. The target must succeed at a DCX Will save or be driven insane for 1d4 rounds. Roll on the following table to determine what action the subject of suicidal urge will perform, the target will continue trying to perform the same action for the duration of the suicidal urge. If the subject dies while under the effect of Suicidal Urge they will become a suicide spirit (see Create Replacement). The save DC is Charisma-based.

    D% Roll Behaviour
    01-20 The subject attack the most dangerous opponent they can see with a melee weapon (or closes with the opponent if melee combat is not possible, ignoring any intervening hazards)
    21-50 The subject babbles about death and self-harm, but takes no action.
    51-70 The subject flees the suicide spirit at their top speed, ignoring any hazards in their path.
    81-00 The subject tries to kill themselves with whatever weapon or implement is within easiest reach (treat as a coup-de-grace attack)
    I'm also thinking Suicidal urge should have a limited use per day (1/day?) and do Wisdom drain or Wisdom damage as well as the self-destructive impulses, so it can cause permanent or long-term insanity.

    I want it to be quite nasty!
    Create Replacement: If a suicide spirit slays a humanoid via its suicidal urge attack, the suicide spirit and the victim's body will vanish, and the victim's soul is torn free of its corpse and cursed to become another suicide spirit.

  • #84
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    That might work for the Suicidal Urge. Let's see what everyone else thinks. The range might be a bit high.

    I thought the replacement wasn't supposed to be a spawning ability, more like the end of a ghost's rejuvenation!

  • #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by freyar View Post
    That might work for the Suicidal Urge. Let's see what everyone else thinks. The range might be a bit high.
    Probably, I was basing it on a medium-range spell by a 10th level caster, but I've no problem with cutting it to 100 feet, 60 feet or whatever.

    What do you think about uses per day and Wisdom drain or damage? If it's only 1/day, we have an excuse for making it a nastier attack. (As if we need one...)

    Quote Originally Posted by freyar View Post
    I thought the replacement wasn't supposed to be a spawning ability, more like the end of a ghost's rejuvenation!
    You mean just having both the suicide spirit and its victim vanish for good? I'd prefer them to create a replacement in a potentially endless cycle of despair. It's not exactly a spawning ability, since the net number of Suicide Ghosts doesn't increase since the original spirit is free to enter the afterlife when it creates a replacement.

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    It really all comes down to how carefully we want to stick to the (little) text we have from the original D&D monster. It directly says
    When someone is killed by damage or drainage by a Pr’eta, both will then vanish — the victim of a Pr’eta does not himself become a Pr’eta.
    So I guess we just need to decide about that. Maybe we should wait to see if demiurge or Shade have an opinion.

  • #87
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    The creating a replacement is more in tune with the original legends, and I like it. The range on the suicide urge is too high--I'd drop it to 60 feet, maybe 30. I'd also rather it was modeled after the death urge psionic power, not confusion.
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  • #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by demiurge1138 View Post
    The creating a replacement is more in tune with the original legends, and I like it. The range on the suicide urge is too high--I'd drop it to 60 feet, maybe 30. I'd also rather it was modeled after the death urge psionic power, not confusion.
    Using death urge is a great idea. We could just give it them as a 1/day SLA, but then it would have a minimum 170 foot range (4th level Medium-range power), which you don't seem to be in favour of. Maybe something like:
    Suicidal Urge (Su): Once a day a suicide spirit can attempt to drive another creature to kill themselves. This functions like the psionic power death urge (Will save DC X), except it has a range of 60 feet and a duration of 1 round for every 4 Hit Dice the suicide spirit possesses. The save DC is Charisma-based.

  • #89
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    Yeah, I like that much better.

    Updated.

    Let's flesh out fireball form now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    For fireball form, should it gain a touch attack that deals fire damage? Maybe the option to explode like a regular fireball (attempting suicide once more), then reforming x rounds/minutes later?
    Quote Originally Posted by freyar View Post
    Probably the fire touch should do more hp than the usual incorporeal touch, unless we want to add Con drain to that too. Reform 1d4 rounds after fireball?
    Should the fireball form be corporeal? My gut says "yes", but it does complicate things a bit.
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    Inside my hands these petals browned;
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    but it was already too late now.
    I pushed my fingers through the earth,
    returned this flower to the dirt;
    so it could live, I walked away now."

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  • #90
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    Death urge seems like a good idea, and Cleon's write-up is fine.

    Edit: An incorporeal fireball might be interesting, but it would be a little strange to have it deal fire damage.

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