Garrote Questions

Ozymandias79 · Nov 26, 2009

Kenhood, have you considered Backstabber??

KenHood · Nov 26, 2009

H.M.Gimlord said:
Of course, Grab is a strength attack, which sucks for a rogue...

Tonk has 18 Strength, so that's not an issue.

Here's a question: Does the proficiency bonus for a garrote apply to the grab attack? And if a garrote is magical, does its enhancement bonus apply to the grab?

Ozymandias79 said:
Kenhood, have you considered Backstabber??

Yes, but considering how rarely we get to flank in the current party mix, Tonk doesn't often get the Sneak Attack damage.

H.M.Gimlord · Nov 26, 2009

I would imagine that the attack and damage bonus for magical garrotes apply to your grab attack as well as subsequent rogue attacks (if you have the proper feat(s)).

Same goes for proficiency bonus. I think it should apply to the grab attack as well.

TwoHeadsBarking · Nov 26, 2009

Well, technically it doesn't. Just Str + half level (+ 4/6/8 if you took Improved Grab).

H.M.Gimlord · Nov 26, 2009

Well that really sucks. What's the point of a magic weapon if it doesn't change the attack bonus until after you've already hit

.

Are you sure THB?

You are right ,if only by omission of an exception, a grab is a grab and not an attack. Most magic weapon bonuses, however, state that their bonus applies to attack and damage rolls. They do not specify a particular ability, nor a particular attack type. If you use the weapon in conjunction with any attack, its bonus should apply.

It really depends on whether or not the grab is considered an attack. If it is, then a magic garrote +1 might well apply its bonus to the grab. Same goes for proficiency.

TwoHeadsBarking · Nov 26, 2009

Grab explicitly states that you don't get bonuses from the weapon, as can be seen here. I think the reason Improved Grab gives a scaling bonus is to make up for the lack of an enchantment bonus.

Edit: This is all just how I think they work, following the rules. I would not necessarily be opposed to a proposal that makes grabs a more appealing option.

H.M.Gimlord · Nov 26, 2009

I stand corrected in my assumption. For some reason I overlooked the line about weapon bonuses not applying to grabs.

Concerning your opinion, I have no hard feelings toward you personally. In fact, I appreciate your sane reasoning. I guess I, like Ken, just think that the nature of the grab interaction with the weapon makes garrotes a little limited.

I also think Ken had a whole lineup of special attack combos that he was hoping to use, only to see his hopes dashed by technicalities.

I think I might still try them out, though.

KenHood · Nov 26, 2009

Yeah. My hopes and dreams have been dashed.

CaBaNa · Nov 26, 2009

I went through the same thing with my human vampire garrote wielding assassin build... The garrote is just too weak.

Bunch of weak sauce dribbled on top of grab, which is already weak.

Theroc · Nov 27, 2009

It sounds very flavorful, and if something like this is mechanically viable, it might convince me to attempt a brutal rogue, or whatever the str/dex rogue is. Overally I was not particularly inspired by the class, but being able to 'choke a *****' would be really fun, especially since it's not just "I attack with X power" That reminds me, I should take a look at those abilities to see if Rujah might want to bullrush or something sometime.