EvanDynamic
First Post
Garrote, more like ... uh ... Gar-NOT
I'm a new-ish player who just stumbled upon the garrote multiclass in Dragon Mag #373.
I'm trying to understand 'garrote attacks'. Let me know where I go wrong as I relate my understanding. Based on what I've read here and in the rules, I'm going to go action-by-action. Because when I think through what I'm reading it seems bizarre once the dice are down. Here, it is for my level 1 human brutal rogue acrobat-ish build (going for duelist archetype, lemme know btw if there is a build/class I'm overlooking in trying to create a duelist).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but where is it written that garrote crams both its attack and its grab into one standard action?
My turn:
Standard Action: Grab with garrote - This is strictly the vanilla PHB action on p.290 without using any powers. All that is different is the -2 to escape the grab (DragMAg p. 15). Target Immobilized, and additionally grants Combat Advantage (CA) to you for the garrote.
Minor action: Sustain Grab.
Move Action: Irrelevant as you cannot 'move action' in a grab as moving is a standard action.
Then nothing, correct? No damage or garrote-specific effects beyond usual grab effects? Assuming I don't use an action point.
Enemy's turn:
I try to maintain my grab as they try to escape at a -2 to their roll for the garrote. Then I can expect to defend against their attack if I retain my grab.
My Second Turn
Standard: This is where I get confused. Quoth the Dragon Magazine 373:
So this line can be interpreted one of two ways with either exceptionally weird or incredibly under-whelming results:
Exceptionally weird: I can use my acrobatic Handspring Assault(?!) level 1 daily power since it's melee and light blade as per the quoted rule. So if I hit, 3 [W] (3 x Garrote's 1d4) + Dex (+4) + Sneak Attack-Backstabber feat dice with garrote's CA (2d8), for a total of Max 32 damage (using this power with my rapier on the first turn, assuming CA = Max Damage 44)?
OR
Incredibly under-whelming: Ignoring th rule's implication that I can straggle in a way that is both Sly and full of Flourish if not Handspringy, then I do a Melee Basic with Garrote (I'm less that level 4, no Choking Grasp). To hit: Strength mod +3, +2 for CA Damage: Weapon 1d4 + Str (+3) + Sneak Attack-Backstabber (2d8) for Max Damage of 23 (at will w/o grabbing at all = 12 or 28 Max damage depending on CA, again on my first turn)?
OR EVEN
Maybe by diminishing the quoted rule above, I could use a more reasonable At-Will like Sly Flourish, Riposte Strike, etc. (again weird as cranking a garrote seems so simple an act that no amount of flourishing or riposting would change things much apart from a melee basic straggle).
Conclusion
Thus far, just to maintain the grab so I can damage on my second turn, I have had to make two tough, uncertain rolls and endured an attack (uncertain in that theses rolls are strength-based vs. reflex or fortitude, which ever is the enemy's higher. Tough in that my brutal rogue is rolling his secondary ability Str, not primary Dex, for these important rolls).
The reward for this is either light blade powers that seem inappropriate from either a role-playing or damage perspective (compared to same power's damage with rapier that I could do a turn earlier). Or a melee basic garrote which is exceedingly poor from a damage perspective. Possibility of max of 23 damage, over two turns, if I make three rolls and survive an attack without losing the grab. My simplest actions for those two turns: 2 melee basics without any powers, sneak attack damage, or bonuses, is already Max Damage 24, one point higher.
So I ask you this:
Please tell me that there is something I am missing. Is the garrote, a low-probability/low-damage for a cool effect trade-off? Does the quoted rule mean I will be doing implausible, role-play-ruining Sly Flourishing with a garrote, let alone Handspring Assaults? Are the grab rolls as hard to make and sustain as I imagine them to be? If you're a DM can you suggest a solution or outline how you handle garrotes?
Last but not least: does this mean my childhood rogue fantasy of garroting sentries in silence is as shattered as the original poster's own dreams?
I'm a new-ish player who just stumbled upon the garrote multiclass in Dragon Mag #373.
I'm trying to understand 'garrote attacks'. Let me know where I go wrong as I relate my understanding. Based on what I've read here and in the rules, I'm going to go action-by-action. Because when I think through what I'm reading it seems bizarre once the dice are down. Here, it is for my level 1 human brutal rogue acrobat-ish build (going for duelist archetype, lemme know btw if there is a build/class I'm overlooking in trying to create a duelist).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but where is it written that garrote crams both its attack and its grab into one standard action?
My turn:
Standard Action: Grab with garrote - This is strictly the vanilla PHB action on p.290 without using any powers. All that is different is the -2 to escape the grab (DragMAg p. 15). Target Immobilized, and additionally grants Combat Advantage (CA) to you for the garrote.
Minor action: Sustain Grab.
Move Action: Irrelevant as you cannot 'move action' in a grab as moving is a standard action.
Then nothing, correct? No damage or garrote-specific effects beyond usual grab effects? Assuming I don't use an action point.
Enemy's turn:
I try to maintain my grab as they try to escape at a -2 to their roll for the garrote. Then I can expect to defend against their attack if I retain my grab.
My Second Turn
Standard: This is where I get confused. Quoth the Dragon Magazine 373:
So this line can be interpreted one of two ways with either exceptionally weird or incredibly under-whelming results:
Exceptionally weird: I can use my acrobatic Handspring Assault(?!) level 1 daily power since it's melee and light blade as per the quoted rule. So if I hit, 3 [W] (3 x Garrote's 1d4) + Dex (+4) + Sneak Attack-Backstabber feat dice with garrote's CA (2d8), for a total of Max 32 damage (using this power with my rapier on the first turn, assuming CA = Max Damage 44)?
OR
Incredibly under-whelming: Ignoring th rule's implication that I can straggle in a way that is both Sly and full of Flourish if not Handspringy, then I do a Melee Basic with Garrote (I'm less that level 4, no Choking Grasp). To hit: Strength mod +3, +2 for CA Damage: Weapon 1d4 + Str (+3) + Sneak Attack-Backstabber (2d8) for Max Damage of 23 (at will w/o grabbing at all = 12 or 28 Max damage depending on CA, again on my first turn)?
OR EVEN
Maybe by diminishing the quoted rule above, I could use a more reasonable At-Will like Sly Flourish, Riposte Strike, etc. (again weird as cranking a garrote seems so simple an act that no amount of flourishing or riposting would change things much apart from a melee basic straggle).
Conclusion
Thus far, just to maintain the grab so I can damage on my second turn, I have had to make two tough, uncertain rolls and endured an attack (uncertain in that theses rolls are strength-based vs. reflex or fortitude, which ever is the enemy's higher. Tough in that my brutal rogue is rolling his secondary ability Str, not primary Dex, for these important rolls).
The reward for this is either light blade powers that seem inappropriate from either a role-playing or damage perspective (compared to same power's damage with rapier that I could do a turn earlier). Or a melee basic garrote which is exceedingly poor from a damage perspective. Possibility of max of 23 damage, over two turns, if I make three rolls and survive an attack without losing the grab. My simplest actions for those two turns: 2 melee basics without any powers, sneak attack damage, or bonuses, is already Max Damage 24, one point higher.
So I ask you this:
Please tell me that there is something I am missing. Is the garrote, a low-probability/low-damage for a cool effect trade-off? Does the quoted rule mean I will be doing implausible, role-play-ruining Sly Flourishing with a garrote, let alone Handspring Assaults? Are the grab rolls as hard to make and sustain as I imagine them to be? If you're a DM can you suggest a solution or outline how you handle garrotes?
Last but not least: does this mean my childhood rogue fantasy of garroting sentries in silence is as shattered as the original poster's own dreams?
