3.5 3.5E Nehaschimic Dragons - Page 3
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Upper_Krust View Post
    Sounds a bit like Dragonball Z, in that really bad things can happen, but they just get undone with the titular dragonballs (ie. Seventh Sense).

    I still think actions should be grounded in consequence though. But I guess at the levels you are playing at why shouldn't the game have come full circle.
    The session is underway as I type this (we play online). I'm doing my best, but they're damned clever little players! As of right now they've come up with some fairly brilliant strategies involving long-range teleportation, local stars and black holes, and Cosmic Consciousness.

    EDIT: For those curious how it turned out, if any of you can think up a strategy for evading: (a) first teleporting in thousands of Interdictor devices designed to sabotage any attempt at warp or hyperspace travel, so FTL transport is no longer possible, and then (b) teleporting in a stellar black hole DIRECTLY ON TOP of the large nanite cloud in the VERY NEXT ROUND... I'd like to hear it! Kudos to my players for coming up with this short-circuit to my plans. I'm off to calculate a massive XP award here.
    Last edited by paradox42; Sunday, 13th December, 2009 at 12:50 AM.

  2. #22
    Solution: If the Devices block Teleportation-type effects, how do you then teleport something there? How do you teleport the devices in the first place? If you teleport the devices in an inactive state, then activate them, how does the signal reach the devices without a person there to do it manually (who would die from the black holes) with faster-than-light-communication (like telepathy)? Further, how can the PCs teleport black holes? (Speaking scientifically here) Shouldn't that require limitless amounts of energy? Or are they doing it via magic, and the spell only cares about volume?

    I don't know much about your setting, but I know I would not let the party be teleporting BLACK HOLES around willy-nilly... Who knows what extra-dimensional entities might take notice of that kind of thing?

  3. #23
    ^Considering Paradox's PCs are over level 500 (I think), I don't see much of an issue with doing something like teleporting a black hole. I obviously can't speak for him, though.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ltheb Silverfrond View Post
    Solution: If the Devices block Teleportation-type effects,
    Stop right there. I never said they block teleports- I said they block FTL. There's a very big difference. Teleportation is instantaneous; it's a change in spatial location without any move in time along with it. faster-than-light travel is standard movement that happens to be what it says on the tin- faster than light speed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltheb Silverfrond View Post
    Further, how can the PCs teleport black holes?
    A black hole- meaning, the event horizon that forms around the singularity- is as easy to transport as the singularity itself. It travels with the singularity, and so if you can influence the motion of the singularity, you move the whole black hole. Teleporting a black hole is therefore easy, if you have a means of getting the singularity in the effect; and since the PCs were using a teleport effect that hits entire volumes at once rather than specific objects, it was fairly easy for them to catch the entire event horizon of the black hole they chose within said volume.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltheb Silverfrond View Post
    (Speaking scientifically here) Shouldn't that require limitless amounts of energy?
    Speaking scientifically, no more energy than moving it at all would. Or more precisely, no more energy than would be required to move any other object given the parameters of the effect being used- which in this case, as I said above, moves an entire volume of spacetime without regard to what happens to be inside it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltheb Silverfrond View Post
    Or are they doing it via magic, and the spell only cares about volume?
    My games combine science and magic, actually. I've never gone for the notion that the two are somehow opposed; that always struck me as silly- and often a lazy throwaway dismissal of any attempt to make something that uses both. I'm certainly aware that some people just plain don't like to mix them; I don't happen to be one of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltheb Silverfrond View Post
    I don't know much about your setting, but I know I would not let the party be teleporting BLACK HOLES around willy-nilly... Who knows what extra-dimensional entities might take notice of that kind of thing?
    Believe me; that's the least of what they've done- but I also have awake Sidereals in the setting within which they did this stunt. The Sidereal of their universe had explicitly told them that she'd be MOST upset if they did something that disrupted the large-scale gravity map of the universe. That was why they were careful to pick a mere stellar black hole, which doesn't really affect anything beyond a light-year or two. So yes, they have been drawing attention- but they've also spent a lot of time recently going around getting allies among the awake Sidereals for the eventual battle against the Demiurge when it wakes up. The Sidereal of their universe was actually one of their first such allies; they gave her critical information which let her find a way to create a portal to the Eternal Realm and thus have an escape route ready if the Demiurge does win. So she's inclined to be indulgent with them. Really, it would have been unreasonable in the extreme for her to do anything after the black-hole-kill but clap appreciatively from a long distance.

    But, thanks for trying anyway.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belzamus View Post
    ^Considering Paradox's PCs are over level 500 (I think), I don't see much of an issue with doing something like teleporting a black hole. I obviously can't speak for him, though.
    At the time they were over 600 HD, actually, and had 25 divine ranks (I have two divine tiers between Greater Deity and the first Sidereal, called Elder Deity and Incarnation. The PCs were Elders at the time). So yes, pretty crazy powerful.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by paradox42 View Post
    At the time they were over 600 HD, actually, and had 25 divine ranks (I have two divine tiers between Greater Deity and the first Sidereal, called Elder Deity and Incarnation. The PCs were Elders at the time). So yes, pretty crazy powerful.
    Jeez...I'd love to just be able to sit in on one of your games. They sound incredible.

  7. #27
    I always thought the black hole dragon would be evil and the quasar dragon good. Still, they're pretty cool. Are you going to do the adamic dragons also?

  8. #28
    Why would a sentient cosmic phenomenon have a moral or ethical disposition? Honestly, I think the Apostasy ability should be automatic for Eternal-level beings. Existing above the planes and dimensions should, IMO, place one far beyond such menial banalities as Good and Evil.

    Also, I second the encouragement for Paradox to do the Adamics, though it's understandable if he doesn't feel like it, given that they wouldn't even be a blip on the radar for his PCs.

  9. #29
    I think the underlying assumption is that forces of Good and Evil are represented by Sidereal level beings, as represented by Cosmic abilities like [Aligned] Messiah and Cosmic Serpent. Therefore Eternals would be beyond such things.

    I don't know if I'd keep this idea myself, though - Destruction beings do tend to be Evil, and Creation/Life beings be Good, and I'm not sure why increased power/scope should necessarily change this.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Khisanth the Ancient View Post
    I think the underlying assumption is that forces of Good and Evil are represented by Sidereal level beings, as represented by Cosmic abilities like [Aligned] Messiah and Cosmic Serpent. Therefore Eternals would be beyond such things.

    I don't know if I'd keep this idea myself, though - Destruction beings do tend to be Evil, and Creation/Life beings be Good, and I'm not sure why increased power/scope should necessarily change this.
    I don't know, I'd feel wrong ascribing an alignment to any of my Eternals, their actions and idealogies are simply beyond such things. For example, Eriahim, my creator-demiurge, is a wellspring of chaos and savagery in the void, obliterating nothingness with existence, attempting to smother death by giving rise to life. I see nothing Good, Evil, or even Neutral in his actions. He simply is; he embodies his own cause, and anyone following or worshipping him could never possibly truly understand his motivations, however they might to try to spin it that he's the glorious, loving, compassionate creator of all that is beautiful and joyeous. In reality, Eriahim created War before anything else, even if inadvertantly, and he has no remorse whatsoever. (though he does for many other things).

    Amusingly, I didn't give him Apostasy for some reason and he's statted as Lawful Good. Hmm...I must be listening to the propaganda.

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