LEB Discussion Thread '10

Mezegis · Jul 29, 2010

I agree with stonegod, but definitely understand evilbob’s point. Yes, there are people (usually defender types) that want to upgrade the big 3 every chance they get, since that +1 could make a big difference in a fight. For everyone else though, once you get “something” in the slot, there is less pressure to upgrade it too often. I mean, if you are a squishy that is hoping not to get hit at all, is upgrading your armor by 1 that critical, or would you rather try and get a utility item so you have more tricks up your sleeve?

It also depends on what the upgrades are, I would much rather keep an lesser item that has a static bonus to something than upgrade to an item that adds a 4th or 5th item daily power that I’ll probably never use due to the milestone restriction.

evilbob · Jul 29, 2010

I don't think there's any class that couldn't stand to upgrade its weapon like clockwork, though. Oh, and I completely forgot to mention the poor classes that use two weapons: they're extra-screwed.

It's a tough call on armor, too - I'd rate that higher than your neck item for pretty much any class. I don't have much experience in this vein, but I'm going to guess levels 1-4 are similar to levels 11-14 and 21-24: suddenly you have access to next-tier item properties/types and you scramble to get geared up, but in the X6-X9 range, you're doing well and can afford to grab more interesting stuff. (Either way, I think there's just too much junk out there! Sometimes I wish WotC's profit model didn't revolve around making choices more complicated - i.e. constantly saturating the market with more options.)

And yeah, adding a 4th daily power is pointless, I agree - but I think adding a first daily power is not too great, either.

That's just me, though!

renau1g · Jul 29, 2010

My favourite daily power is on the Githyanki Silver Sword... if you're fighting a tough solo, or elite, you can take him out for at least 1 round. That's usually enough to regroup and remove any other opposition to focus on the big guy. But overall I prefer properties as well.

Velmont · Jul 29, 2010

I've been working on a character that will replace Artemus. I finally don't like my Half-Orc Rogue (his build is too party dependent, don't like his personality finally, etc...) and I have created an Elven Avenger. And what is happening is that I have almost all my slot filled because when creating a level 7 character, the +1 items I would have chosen if I had created at lvl 4, I can replace that with some miscellaneous items. They are mainly lvl 1 and 2 items, but still.

I'm wondering if we shouldn't take a look at the rules to create new character at higher level than 4th.

Velmont · Jul 29, 2010

Mezegis said:
I agree with stonegod, but definitely understand evilbob’s point. Yes, there are people (usually defender types) that want to upgrade the big 3 every chance they get, since that +1 could make a big difference in a fight. For everyone else though, once you get “something” in the slot, there is less pressure to upgrade it too often. I mean, if you are a squishy that is hoping not to get hit at all, is upgrading your armor by 1 that critical, or would you rather try and get a utility item so you have more tricks up your sleeve?

Armors might be the exception in this, because not only upgrading your chainmail from +1 to +2 help you, but your chainmail can be a finemail instead and then, you finish by having a +2 to AC. That's an example, but all armor work like that.

evilbob · Jul 29, 2010

Velmont said:
I've been working on a character that will replace Artemus. I finally don't like my Half-Orc Rogue (his build is too party dependent, don't like his personality finally, etc...) and I have created an Elven Avenger. And what is happening is that I have almost all my slot filled because when creating a level 7 character, the +1 items I would have chosen if I had created at lvl 4, I can replace that with some miscellaneous items. They are mainly lvl 1 and 2 items, but still.

I'm wondering if we shouldn't take a look at the rules to create new character at higher level than 4th.

This is a good point; starting a very high level character allows you to bypass the "must upgrade once per 5 levels" thing I was talking about. So in this case, Velmont can avoid purchasing the +1 versions of all of the big three and keep going.

On the other hand, he also doesn't get the advantage of time gold, which is in addition to the parcel system. So theoretically, a new 7th level character would be missing a lot of extra gold that would have been used to fill in those lower level items.

Does it seem like it balances?

stonegod · Jul 29, 2010

Time hold is folded into parcels at higher levels as well; he should get both.

I created Tondrek @ 7th. After getting the basics, I still had plenty gold & parcels to get some interesting things (iron defender, mostly).

KarinsDad · Jul 29, 2010

Most non-defenders PCs can avoid the neck slot items every other time.

As an example, going from a +1 to a +2 neck slot item means that if most monsters target AC half of the time and Reflex, Fort, or Will half of the time, then 1/2 * 1/20 attacks, the extra +1 helps the PC on 1 attack in 40. Assuming that a given non-Defender PC only gets attacked 5 times per encounter (instead of the more likely 8 or 10 or more times of a Defender), then the better neck slot item only helps out in one encounter in 8.

Skipping past the item, on the other hand, will allow for other item abilities that can be beneficial more often than once every adventuring day plus. This is especially true at LEB where 6 encounter days are almost unheard of.

evilbob · Jul 30, 2010

evilbob said:
6th adventure: Unit 16, LEB
current adventure average roll: 6.8
total crit success/fails: 0 / 2

Update:

Average roll for the adventure has gone up 8.6. However:
total crit success/fails: 0 / 4

To everyone else whose luck has mysteriously improved recently: you're welcome.

twilsemail · Jul 30, 2010

evilbob said:
Update:

Average roll for the adventure has gone up 8.6. However:
total crit success/fails: 0 / 4

To everyone else whose luck has mysteriously improved recently: you're welcome.