LEB Discussion Thread '10

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KarinsDad

Adventurer
Rain of Steel is neither an aura nor a weapon attack. It's an effect. It does do weapon damage, so it gains from bonuses to weapon damage.


As for Ogremight Style, that is not a charging style, although higher level feats do give charge abilities.

It's a Brute Striker style using big two handed weapons. The idea is to beat your foe down. This is probably the reason they gave Brash Strike as an associated power. Brash Strike is all about damage, not charging.

Threatening Rush is all about marking. Ogremight is about damaging. Two separate concepts. None of the Ogremight Style encounter powers are about charging either. They are all about damaging.
 

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Vertexx69

First Post
Mount questions

As a mount can be a pricey investment that can be literally chopped out from under a character, these questions came to mind.

Does a mount count as an ally for item use?

- With most mounts only having a single healing surge (or would it be 2 like a beastmaster's animal companion?), would they be able to have an item like the Healing Sash used on them?

What all items can a mount wear at once?
- I figure Armor slot (Barding), Head slot (Bridle), Waist slot (Saddle), Foot slot (Horseshoes/Greaves). Would they also be able to benefit from a neck Slot (Amulet/Collar/Caparison)? Some mounts are bipedal with arms and hands (especially the reptiles in Eberron), so would they be able to use Arm slot (Bracers), Hand slot (Gauntlets/Gloves), Finger slot (Ring)? Can Mounts have a magic tattoo? Since all the mount items with powers in AV1 are activated by the rider, this should work with any other slots as well right?

When can a mount use a Healing Surge?
- Is it the same as anything else, like using 2nd wind in combat or after a short or extended rest? I seem to remember reading somewhere about a mount being to able to use a HS when its rider uses one, or a rider can use a HS on its mount when he does or something like that? But I can't find it now. Its totally possible that I'm remembering something from a completely different system ;p

Does a mount get Opportunity Attacks?
- I would presume they do since their space is larger than the riders. For instance, since the erratta where you have to choose which square inside the mounts space the rider is in, it leaves squares where the rider can't reach that the mount still threatens. So would it be a joint set of actions type thing, where if the rider can't make the OA then the mount can as long as its still only once per opponent's turn? Or would the rider just shift to any square in the mount's space and make all the OAs?

Does a mount get Action Points?
 
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dimsdale

First Post
I'll probably stick with a warlord, the whole ki focus/weapon enhancement things makes my head hurt :S.
So either bravura or resourceful warlord, and just a couple of dozen tries to make the wiki work properly :D
Thanks for the info guys.


I have one of each. Lo-Kag is a resourceful warlord in LEB and Max is a bravura in the other 4e sight. Between the two I like bravura the best, especially if you have a strong melee warrior type in your party to do tandum attacks on one "overwhelmed" foe. Both types give great benefits to the rest of the party when they make their AP attacks.
 

stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
Does a mount count as an ally for item use?[/B]
- With most mounts only having a single healing surge (or would it be 2 like a beastmaster's animal companion?), would they be able to have an item like the Healing Sash used on them?
- Is a mount an ally? Its not explicitly stated, but as per the power rules, a target is either an ally or an enemy. Its pretty nonsensical to consider a mount an enemy, so I think its common sense to treat it as an ally.
-Mounts have 1 HS (companions are exceptions).
What all items can a mount wear at once?
This is defined in AV. They may wear barding or one mount magic item, be it bridle, saddle, etc. They may have mundane equipment, but other than the saddle & mundane barding, it has no effect.
When can a mount use a Healing Surge?
They can't. Like other monsters, they don't have the second wind "power". Or, to put it another way, only PCs get second wind. See the PH.
Does a mount get Opportunity Attacks?
Yes, but the rider & the mount can't both make OAs as they share 1 OA (unless the mount power granted by Mounted Combat says differently).
Does a mount get Action Points?
Nope. Only PCs and elite or higher monsters. Now, a PC can spend an AP and grant its action to the mount as they share actions. But there is no separate AP pool.
 

KarinsDad

Adventurer
As a mount can be a pricey investment that can be literally chopped out from under a character, these questions came to mind.

Does a mount count as an ally for item use?

Yes. They are willing creatures.

- With most mounts only having a single healing surge (or would it be 2 like a beastmaster's animal companion?), would they be able to have an item like the Healing Sash used on them?

Yes.

What all items can a mount wear at once?
- I figure Armor slot (Barding), Head slot (Bridle), Waist slot (Saddle), Foot slot (Horseshoes/Greaves). Would they also be able to benefit from a neck Slot (Amulet/Collar/Caparison)? Some mounts are bipedal with arms and hands (especially the reptiles in Eberron), so would they be able to use Arm slot (Bracers), Hand slot (Gauntlets/Gloves), Finger slot (Ring)? Can Mounts have a magic tattoo? Since all the mount items with powers in AV1 are activated by the rider, this should work with any other slots as well right?

Mounts can wear a single Mount category item (barding, bridle, horseshoes, etc.). See Adventurer's Vault. Companions can use a Companion or Mount item.

I do not think they can wear anything else although item effects from PCs can still affect them. This is more implied than explicitly stated. For example:

Although mounts are mainly used as basic transportation, others (especially warhorses and other combat-trained mounts) might take advantage of specialized gear such as barding (described below) and mount magic items (described in Chapter 2).

...

A creature serving as your companion or mount has a single magic item slot that you can activate using your own actions (and not the creature’s).

Regardless of whether they can use items outside of Mount items, they are still limited to one slot for magic items. They also have multiple slots for non-magical items such as barding.

Since the Mount magic items include bridles and barding, etc., I do not think that one can claim that they can use waist items or armor. In fact, there is magic barding rule that prohibits magic armor enhancements in barding (but not magic armor effects which can be transferred).

When can a mount use a Healing Surge?
- Is it the same as anything else, like using 2nd wind in combat or after a short or extended rest? I seem to remember reading somewhere about a mount being to able to use a HS when its rider uses one, or a rider can use a HS on its mount when he does or something like that? But I can't find it now. Its totally possible that I'm remembering something from a completely different system ;p

Mounts are monsters (for all intents and purposes). They cannot use a healing surge unless a power or effect allows them to. For example, a heroic level mount can be healed as an ally once per day by a Cleric.

Technically, they are allies (i.e. willing) and they can be considered NPCs (there is no rule to prevent them from being NPCs), so they can have a Healing check for Grant a Saving Throw. But, a PC cannot use a Healing check for Second Wind on the mount because the mount does not have Second Wind to begin with. And Stabilize the Dying doesn't work because the mount is typically dead at zero hit points (shy of some item or some such).

Does a mount get Opportunity Attacks?
- I would presume they do since their space is larger than the riders. For instance, since the erratta where you have to choose which square inside the mounts space the rider is in, it leaves squares where the rider can't reach that the mount still threatens. So would it be a joint set of actions type thing, where if the rider can't make the OA then the mount can as long as its still only once per opponent's turn? Or would the rider just shift to any square in the mount's space and make all the OAs?

First off, one does not choose a square for the rider in the mount's space. The rider is technically in all of the squares of the mount. Choosing the square is only for origin point for attacks (such as melee, close bursts or blasts, or ranged). The "if it is important" rule from the DMG has been overwritten and dropped in the Update.


A mount is a creature like any other creature and can take Opportunity Attacks. However, the shared action rules have been updated to state that there is only one OA that either the rider or the mount takes.

Remember, flying mounts do not get OAs unless they have Hover.

Does a mount get Action Points?

Not unless the mount creature type does which I don't think ever occurs.
 

Vertexx69

First Post
thx for the clarifications, I just want to get things strait so I don't make any stupid presumptions in game. So since Rohna shares Natasha's 2x2 space, her antipathy gloves make the spaces around that cost +1 movement to enter. And since the Rain of Steel stance doesn't count as an attack, it effects any enemy that starts adjacent to that space too correct? I guess I already have the best possible mount item in the impenetrable barding at least.

Did we ever get the answer for the tattoo on the mount? It doesn't take a slot.
 
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KarinsDad

Adventurer
Actually, even though Rain of Steel is not an attack, the rider still has to pick an origin square for it each round.

However, the origin squares of the rider’s powers and other effects do not change to the mount’s size.

The rider has to pick a single square that the stance originates at. The rider has to pick a single square that the antipathy gloves originates at. These are powers or effects that do not change to the mount's size. The rider would have to determine his square for this during his turn and he cannot change it until his following turn.

Btw, a rider can allow forced movement for him to move his mount as well, but the location of the effect should stay the same.


It's only for the purpose of giving or receiving OAs or being within an effect of a power or attack, or whatever, does the rider effectively become within the 2x2 of the mount (which becomes real interesting and bizarre for 3x3 mounts).


As for a tattoo, the mount is a "character" (i.e. an NPC), so it seems legal to allow the PC to put a single tattoo on the mount. In fact, a mount should be capable of using any wondrous items, but good luck getting most of them allowed by a DM. It's tough for a mount to activate a flying carpet.
 

Vertexx69

First Post
Cool beans ;) I think I've finally nailed down Rohna's wish list at this point. If we can just get that proposal nailed down now either way, I think I can finish her lvl ups and be ready to continue adventuring :cool:

There's not really a reason for a mount to try to use a wondrous item, except maybe a potion, since they don't take up slots. B-) Unless the mount gets a separate set of daily item power uses. Then it might be worth exploring :devil:

Could a conjured creature, like a spirit companion or a "natural animate" from a figurine of wondrous power, use a companion/mount item?
 

KarinsDad

Adventurer
Could a conjured creature, like a spirit companion or a "natural animate" from a figurine of wondrous power, use a companion/mount item?

No and yes. Spirit companions are not creatures. They are conjurations that might look like creatures.

So, for example, a spirit companion can float in mid-air if the conjuration was placed at that location because gravity does not affect a conjuration. Close bursts and blasts which are not melee or ranged attacks do not affect them, etc.


A Figurine of Wondrous Power, on the other hand, does conjure a creature. It's a limited form of creature with no healing surges and such, but it is still a creature. A mount version of a Figurine of Wondrous Power could use a mount magic item slot item.
 


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