Mage-Brute 3

Dannyalcatraz · Dec 31, 2009

As mentioned in some previous threads like these:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/223891-mage-brute-build-help.html
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/239192-forked-thread-mage-brute-revisited.html

I've been fiddling with the concept of a largely non-casting armored arcanist.

Some recent discussions have me exploring a new variant: using the Sorcerer, Battle Sorcerer or Stalwart Sorcerer in conjunction with the Spellthief.

The theory in that variant is that the lighter armored PC uses his spellstealing ability to power his Heritage feats, Arcane strikes, and Razing strikes- obviously in conjunction with directly engaging an enemy arcanist in melee.

The question is...is it possible to do so?

Spellthieves can steal specific spells or spell slots to power their own spells, but the question is can Spellthieves use those stolen spells/slots to power Feats like Arcane Strike, Razing Strike, Celestial Sorcerer Lance, Draconic Breath or Infernal Sorcerer Shout?

In a related question, does the Feat Battle Caster require a PC take it once for each arcane class that can cast in armor, or is taking the feat once sufficient to work with all of a PC's armored arcanist classes?

IOW, does a BttlSorc/Spellthief need to take Battle Caster once or twice in order to cast all of his arcane spells in armor?

kyrand · Dec 31, 2009

Master Spellthief (Comp Scoundrel) is the feat you want, I think.

Prerequisite: Ability to cast 2nd-level arcane spells, steal spell.
Benefit: Your spellthief levels stack with levels of other arcane spellcaster classes (that is, levels of any class that grants arcane spellcasting other than the spellthief) for the purpose of determining what level of spell you can steal. For example, a 4th-level spellthief/4th-level wizard could steal spells of up to 4th level, as if he were an 8th-level spellthief.
Your spellthief and arcane spellcaster levels also stack when determining your caster level for all arcane spells. The character described above would have a caster level of 8th for both his spellthief spells and his wizard spells.
In addition, you do not incur a chance of arcane spell failure for arcane spells cast or stolen from other classes, but only if you are wearing light armor. You incur the normal arcane spell failure chance when wearing medium or heavy armor or when using a shield.
Special: A spellthief does not incur a chance of arcane spell failure when casting spellthief spells in light armor. He incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for other arcane spells he casts, including those stolen from arcane casters.

Dannyalcatraz · Jan 1, 2010

That looks interesting...definitely one worth considering. Thanks!

I wonder how that interacts with Practiced Spellcaster, though.

Jorael · Jan 1, 2010

This may be a little off of what you were thinking, but...

You might want to look at the Abjurant Champion in Complete Mage, though you need to be mostly martial before going into the PrC, it's quite cool once you start getting the bonuses:
+1 AC when casting shield per Abjurant Champion level, you can sacrifice a memorized spell of spell slot for various effects (AC, damage, attack bonuses, energy resists), free extend and quicken on abjuration spells, and at the 5th level of the PrC, your caster level equals your BAB, so your Fighter 4/Wizard 2/Abjurant Champion 5 has a CL of 10 at level 11, and can cast 4th-level spells (3rd, if you go sorc/battle sorc).

I feel you could very easily make a brute out of this, and deal some nasty spell damage, to boot.

Dannyalcatraz · Jan 1, 2010

Thanks for the idea- I had only thought of the PC as a Spellthief/Sorc (or variant)- I hadn't considered any of the PrCls that I know are out there.

Dannyalcatraz · Jan 1, 2010

The more I think about it, the bulk of an Abjurant Champion's schtick would work better for a more standard version of the Mage-Brute. OTOH, I'm not sure what PrCl would work better.

In a sense, this guy is more of a Mage-Slayer than a stand-up arcane warrior, similar to earlier editions' Magic-User/Thief. Except, of course, he has the new trick of sucking up the target's spell slots and using them to hit him up-close and hard...as well as possibly nailing some of his men-at-arms in the process. A more magical version of Altair (of Assassin's Creed fame) if you will.

Jorael · Jan 1, 2010

Well, if you want to be a mage slayer, there's several feats in Complete Arcane that boost your magic-user killing options; Mage Slayer and Pierce Magical Protection/Concealment. They allow you to ignore AC from spells, and stop the mage from casting defensively.

You could also take the rogue alternate class feature from Complete Mage that allows you to reflect spells back at the caster if they miss you, but that's only with spells that require an attack roll. The sweetest thing about that ability, though, is the fact that the caster re-rolls his attack against his own AC. Hilarious!

Hope my posts have helped.

kyrand · Jan 1, 2010

The downside to the Mage-Slayer feats is each one reduces your caster level for all spells and spell-like abilities by 4. The AbjCha idea I like though - anything I don't dispel/counter, I absorb and shoot back at you. And not as broken as the regular Champ build, since you can't cast the Greater Luminous Armor portion (requires a Caster who prepares) w/o a scroll or such.

Dannyalcatraz · Jan 2, 2010

Hmm...I'll have to give the AbjChamp a closer look.

And Mage-Slayer (Feat) just seems like too much of a gimp for a PC with 2 casting classes, even for me!