Doctor Who - the end of time [spoilers]

Plane Sailing · Jan 1, 2010

I'll not say much other than this.

Shock, horror - Russell T Davis writes a season ender with an ending which doesn't suck.

Sure, there are some unexplained quirks, but overall nicely done IMO.

carrot · Jan 2, 2010

It didn't suck... but it wasn't great either. The acting was good (and I have to say I'm looking forward to seeing what Matt Smith brings to the role), and I guess the effects were ok. Unfortunately the plot was a bit rubbish, but least this time there wasn't anything as completely ridiculous as towing Earth with the tardis...

Bring on Mr Moffat!!!

delericho · Jan 2, 2010

I thought it was excellent. I didn't really expect it to be - the first part didn't impress me much - but I was stunned by how good a send off to DT it was. Perhaps that was just my shok at RTD not pulling the "reset button" ending that I had expected and feared.

I particularly liked the goodbyes to all the companions.

Pseudonym · Jan 2, 2010

The final 15 minutes made up for the rest of the episode, IMO. It was a nice send off, and an interesting take on the regeneration process. It seemed that number 10 was afraid he'd go away and wouldn't be The Doctor after regeneration, but he knew that his personality would change in ways as it had the prior nine times. Most regenerations are the result of trauma. Interesting reaction to knowing it was going to happen in advance. Has the reboot of the series changed the 'you only regenerate twelve times' idea? Maybe his reaction comes from knowing that he doesn't have many regenerations left.

I wish we could have had more with the Timelords. Nice to get a mention of Rasilon, even if brief. Who was the lady then?

Looking forward to seeing future episodes.

Morrus · Jan 2, 2010

I loved it unreservedly. It's like he wrote the episode to delight the fun-loving geek in me! Multiple Star Wars homages, Tomothy Dalton hamming it up, Bernard Cribbens manning a laser turret, an emotional and fitting goodbye, a fantastic performance by Tennant, and Matt Smith's brief intro seemed OK. The trailer for the next series lokos pretty cool.

horacethegrey · Jan 2, 2010

Well... I hope you don't mind me being the dissenting voice here, but I found this last hurrah of the Tenth Doctor to be flawed at best. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a fitting sendoff to David Tennant and the wonderful 4 years he's given us. At the same time though, it's an irritating (but thankfully last!) reminder of how half baked Russel T. Davies' writing is at times.

Let me start off by pointing out the big problems I had with this finale:

1) The Doctor's needless angst about death - Sure, when faced with the prospect of meeting our inevitable end, I'm sure we'd act a bit maudlin and somewhat melancholy. So too would the Doctor, if he really was in danger of dying! But the agonizing choice of sacrificing himself for Wilf? Not a problem! Just a radiation bath, one regeneration later - poof! - brand new Time Lord! So why does he need to go on some wangsty rant on how he has so much left to live for?! WTF?! Dude, you can change into a new form! What the hell are you going on about? You've done it nine times already! What's so bad about one more?

Apparently Russel T. Davies didn't get the memo stating that regeneration isn't a death, it's a rebirth. All that foreshadowing he built up since last season of the Doctor's coming end felt wasted. If he really was in danger of dying, make it feel like it is! Don't present a situation where the audience (and the Doctor) know that he'll be reborn. All those farewell scenes to his comapanions at the end (which were wonderfully done btw) felt wasted.

2) The Doctor using a gun - The biggest glaring plot point. So the Doctor needs to use a gun to kill the Master, since the Master is the link to the Time Lords eventual return. The Doctor of course, can't do it, since he's vowed never to use a gun (which is of course bull, as he's used guns many times before), and it's against his code of no killing (despite the humungous body count that can be laid at his feet). He can't kill the Time Lord president either, which would be just as effective in solving the problem.

Then along comes the third choice, shoot the machinery! Right! Brilliant! Why didn't you do it before you stupid git! Of course, it's Davies again and his lackluster plotting. So he pull his out of his ass a cheap solution to resolve the plot. Despite the fact it renders moot all the dramatic tension that occured moments before.

Whew... anyway, that's my rant. Not to say though that there weren't any good points to this show. All the performances were wonderful, especially Tennant, who gives a bravura acting job in his final appearance. While I will miss him, it was a kick to see Matt Smith in the final few seconds. Geronimo indeed.

Bring on the Moff and the 2010 season!

Felon · Jan 2, 2010

horacethegrey said:
1) The Doctor's needless angst about death - Sure, when faced with the prospect of meeting our inevitable end, I'm sure we'd act a bit maudlin and somewhat melancholy. So too would the Doctor, if he really was in danger of dying! But the agonizing choice of sacrificing himself for Wilf? Not a problem! Just a radiation bath, one regeneration later - poof! - brand new Time Lord! So why does he need to go on some wangsty rant on how he has so much left to live for?! WTF?! Dude, you can change into a new form! What the hell are you going on about? You've done it nine times already! What's so bad about one more?

Apparently Russel T. Davies didn't get the memo stating that regeneration isn't a death, it's a rebirth.

Well before the scene in question (maybe in part 1), they did a set-up for why the Doctor has angst about dying. The Doctor says that regeneration still means death for the current Doctor's identity as some completely new--perhaps utterly antithetical--persona replaces it. Exactly as you say, a "Brand New Time Lord" appears in the place of the old one. Sure, it can go about the same business as No. 10, and try to continue pursuing his goals, but No.11 won't because it doesn't give a whit about its previous incarnation's desires.

Without loving or hating the show on the whole--or Davies schmoltzy rollercoaster style--I can certainly find this position easy to identify with. Someone taking up residence in my body and utilizing my knowledge still isn't me. I think all of that meshes pretty well with how the Doctors have previously regarded each other during crossovers. The earlier ones don't treat the newer as some kind of advancement or outgrowth, it's just some completely other guy who happens to have the same skillset.

What I did find pretty bogus was the physical setup where there's some silly chamber that can only let you out if someone else gets in. How inconvenient.

But hey, at least we finally get to meet Rassilon.

horacethegrey · Jan 2, 2010

Felon said:
Well before the scene in question (maybe in part 1), they did a set-up for why the Doctor has angst about dying. The Doctor says that regeneration still means death for the current Doctor's identity as some completely new--perhaps utterly antithetical--persona replaces it.

I remember the scene in question, and I thought it one of the better moments in an otherwise lackluster first part. Sure, I can sympathize with the Doctor having fear of regeneration, but only up to a point. Having your current 'self' or identity be replaced by a brand new one is surely a harrowing experience. But no way is that death in my book. Death to the Doctor must mean he ceases to be. No more regenerations, no new guy popping in and moaning about not being 'ginger'. That is something to fear. The Tenth Doctor has no excuse to moan about his sacrifice for Wilf when he knows perfectly well he can "cheat death" (as explained by his previous incarnation) in that situation. Hmm... come to think of it, why couldn't he follow the example of his 'Doctor', the Fifth? The Fifth Doctor didn't go out moaning when he sacrificed himself for Peri in The Caves of Androzani. And the brilliant thing was, he wasn't sure he was going to regenerate there, so that makes it a even greater sacrifice in my book.

Morrus · Jan 2, 2010

Each Doctor is different. This one had a fear of regeneration. The last one didn't. I'm not sure I see a problem here. And it's not like he didn't do it - he just spent 30 seconds talking about it first, but there was no chance at all of him not doing it.

Anyway, no previous Doctor has been forewarned of his regeneration months in advance. That's gonna make it harder however you slice it.

MarkB · Jan 3, 2010

Pseudonym said:
I wish we could have had more with the Timelords. Nice to get a mention of Rasilon, even if brief. Who was the lady then?

I haven't heard (or looked for) a definitive answer, but I, personally, would like to think it was Romana.

horacethegrey said:
1) The Doctor's needless angst about death - Sure, when faced with the prospect of meeting our inevitable end, I'm sure we'd act a bit maudlin and somewhat melancholy. So too would the Doctor, if he really was in danger of dying! But the agonizing choice of sacrificing himself for Wilf? Not a problem! Just a radiation bath, one regeneration later - poof! - brand new Time Lord! So why does he need to go on some wangsty rant on how he has so much left to live for?! WTF?! Dude, you can change into a new form! What the hell are you going on about? You've done it nine times already! What's so bad about one more?

I'll echo the other answers. As best I can remember it, the quote people mentioned from part one goes something like this:

"Regeneration feels like dying, anyway. Yes, someone else lives on, walks away in your body, but you - you're still dead."