What have been the big innovations in RPGs? - Page 6




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  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by pogre View Post
    What? It certainly is not. Part of d20's influence is undeniably a unified mechanic. I stated upfront it was not the first game to do so, but was a radical change in D&D systems and subsystems and thus has become the expected for a large number of games. It was part of d20's widespread influence.
    The problem is, this really is a case of D&D catching up to the rest of the hobby. By 2000, unified mechanics were the norm in RPGs, not the exception.

 

  • #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Beginning of the End View Post
    That's like saying that U2 was highly influential because they had a drummer.

    I mean, it's true that: (1) U2 was influential. (2) They had a drummer. The two just have no connection to each other whatsoever.
    How about saying that U2 was highly influential because they had a guitar player, though?

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    Guitar player! Now that's an innovation. If only others had thought about that one...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanee View Post
    Guitar player! Now that's an innovation. If only others had thought about that one... ...
    Don't know if it was really an inovation or not, but it definitely gave them an Edge.

    ba dump...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott_Rouse View Post
    Forked from the "The Next Innovation in Gaming?" thread:

    So what would you consider to be the big innovations in the RPG category? This could be systems, rules, formats, accessories, IPs, technologies etc. I will get is started but mine is not meant to be an exhaustive list.

    • D&D 3e and the OGL
    • PDF format and distribution via RPGNow/Drivethru RPG
    • Print on Demand
    • Pre-painted plastic miniatures
    • e-Character Creators (e-tools, PC Gen, D&Di etc)
    • Internet game tables (Fantasy Grounds, Game Table Online)
    • Online rules databases (d20srd.org, D&Di Compendium)
    • RPG based web communities (ENWorld etc)
    • Web based RPG resource services (Obsidian Portal, D&D Insider)


    So what else would you say are the big innovations that change RPGs going forward.
    I'd hardly call 3e an innovation. It's just someone's modified ruleset of AD&D. A popular one, but most of it was being used in someone's game somewhere. All 3e did was collect those rules and put them all in one place.

    The OGL is merely a scam. A brilliant one. WOTC somehow talked people into signing a license to make a product they could already legally produce.

    As far back as the 70s, I always wondered why I had to paint my own damn miniatures.

    Character creators have been around since the early 80s. I still have an old 1st edition AD&D chargen on floppy somewhere. And online databases predate the internet by at least a decade. I was browsing them on a C-64 with a 300 baud modem.

    Honestly, I don't think any of your list is really innovative. Perhaps pdf distribution, but mostly, I think it's all just tiny, logical steps in gaming. Mostly.

  • #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Wulf Ratbane View Post
    (And then U2 decided to break into hip-hop. Sorry. /editionwar)
    It wasn't hip hop, it was techno. /zooropa

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  • #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRRNeiklot View Post
    The OGL is merely a scam. A brilliant one. WOTC somehow talked people into signing a license to make a product they could already legally produce.
    That is harsh. And I think incorrect. You should perhaps not accuse people of that which is unethical and perhaps illegal without a bit more support.

    While it is true that one could produce products based on WotC mechanics legally, in theory, the practice involved a great deal of work and risk - if you did it incorrectly WotC would have been within rights to come down on you and your product like a ton of bricks.

    In the OGL, WotC convinced people to sign a license that allowed them to make a product with far less risk, and with fairly clear guidance on what would be seen as allowable use. And they effectively allowed this in perpetuity.

    That isn't a scam - that's cooperative business. There's no misleading or misinformation here that suggests any "scam".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Umbran View Post
    That is harsh. And I think incorrect. You should perhaps not accuse people of that which is unethical and perhaps illegal without a bit more support.

    While it is true that one could produce products based on WotC mechanics legally, in theory, the practice involved a great deal of work and risk - if you did it incorrectly WotC would have been within rights to come down on you and your product like a ton of bricks.

    In the OGL, WotC convinced people to sign a license that allowed them to make a product with far less risk, and with fairly clear guidance on what would be seen as allowable use. And they effectively allowed this in perpetuity.

    That isn't a scam - that's cooperative business. There's no misleading or misinformation here that suggests any "scam".
    Yeah, I totally agree with you on all points, but for the sake of argument, let's look for just a moment at the things you could not do without the OGL.

    You could create your own version of the PHB, but it could not copy any text verbatim from the 3rd edition PHB because that would have been a violation of copyright.

    You could create a module, campaign setting, or what have you that uses public domain monsters, but you could not copy stats. For instance, you could probably get away with:

    Orc (5): hp 6, but if you want to include the statistic for the orcs, or even derive them from the MM, then you're out of luck.

    You could not use any monsters that originated in the D&D game. Just page through the MM and figure out which monsters are from myth, public domain sources, and which ones originated with D&D. Now eliminate everything that originated with D&D.

    You could not include anything that would indicate compatibility with D&D.



    There's more than just that, but the bottom line is that without the OGL, most publishers considered making their own compatible stuff too risky, and for good reason. Back before the OGL, I created a campaign setting that I released for free over the internet, and I included no game mechanics at all just so that I could avoid the potential legal pitfalls.
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  • #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRRNeiklot View Post
    The OGL is merely a scam. A brilliant one. WOTC somehow talked people into signing a license to make a product they could already legally produce.
    Incorrect. Rather than delving into a potential legal grey area (despite how many internet armchair lawyers tell you that "you can't copyright game mechanics", it's a much murkier proposition than that simple black and white statement), publishers were given a legal safe haven. If you adhere to the terms of the license, WotC doesn't bother you.

    That, and the fact that you can use much of their rules text verbatim (which you absolutely could not do without the license), results in a great deal of utility from that license.

  • #60
    Quote Originally Posted by howandwhy99 View Post
    9. Rise of the Forge and "modern" roleplaying game design theory. (essentially one side of the huge '90's debate declaring victory and claiming the other side deluded with dysfunctional games and abashed designers) This change includes recognizing of games as fiction and all game playing as storytelling. It is also a denial of almost every pre-Forge RPG as qualifying as either roleplaying or games.
    Science showing play and games are socially situated was 'out and about' in psychology long before the '90s. It's kind of unfortunate that tabletop RPG theory hasn't moved on and aligned itself with scientific research.

    Psychologists now see social systems, including games, as complex, cascading systems with interacting biological, social, cognitive, psychodynamic, reflexive and metacognitive dimensions.

    If nothing else we can use that to infer that the quality of the snacks at the gaming table should impact on the quality of the players' narrative/ game?

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