Divine, Cosmic, Transcendental, and Omnific abilities.

How much are they worth as armor/weapon special qualities?

Also, would a cosmic ability be potent enough to give you +50% more divine ability slots? It would be essentially useless to weaker divinities, but would equal soniferous in raw power.

How about a cosmic ability to allow you to have one additional artifact?

Also, assuming you trade in ALL FOUR artifacts. They should grant you a total of divine ability slots equal to 1/3 your ECL.

Could they be used to purchase Cosmic Abilities you don't qualify for (the true advantage of artifacts), or would you be forced to stick to lesser abilities.

For the first question, I *believe* a Feat is worth +1 on a weapon, thus +6 for a Divine, +36 Cosmic, +216 Transcendental, +1,200 Omnific. Armor is bit fizzier for me, but I think it *should* work the same way. It all comes down to equivalent ECL value anyhow.

+50% Divines from your template? That sounds unbalanced. A Cosmic is worth 6 Divines. Anything above Intermediate Deity could exploit an ability like that. It gives free ECL basically.

For an additional artifact, each artifact is equal to 1/4 ECL. No way for a Cosmic. You want an extra artifact, you take a flat ECL increase.

If you trade in all 4 artifacts, you get a number of Divine Abilities equal to your template's Divine Abilities x4. This comes out to slightly more in ECL value, but the 5/6thss rule of the divinity templates balances it out.

Unless it's on an artifact, no, you need to qualify for any abilities you take, unless you have the Nescient series of abilities.

Also, just some advice, I find this system is a lot easier to work of if you think of everything in terms of ECL. Convert everything into that and you can trade one thing for another for another, for another.

Belzamus said:

If you trade in all 4 artifacts, you get a number of Divine Abilities equal to your template's Divine Abilities x4. This comes out to slightly more in ECL value, but the 5/6thss rule of the divinity templates balances it out.

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If your overall ECL is much higher than your template ECLx2, your artifacts would be more powerful, allowing you to trade them in for a lot more divine abilities. The biggest drawback to this is that you lose the advantage of having abilities that are beyond Esoteric for you.

In the long run you are better off just keeping your artifacts, but some gamers like extreme customization. Essentially sacrificing quality for quantity. While this is good for roleplaying purposes at times, it does tend to get them killed more often.

Well...yes, honestly. It's kind of suggested that you keep Hit Dice and Level Adjustment as close together as possible in order to keep things balanced. That said, nothing wrong with using 1/3 ECL in that case.

About your other point, I don't really see the issue. In almost all cases, a given Immortal won't be able to take an ability a tier above esoteric anyways.

Let's take an average intermediate deity, for instance.

HD: 60
ECL: 120
Divine Abilities: 12
Equipment ECL: 40 (remember, 1 Divine Ability is 1 ECL)

Bearing in mind items maxes of +60 and +55, respectively, there's no way he'd ever be able to get a Transcendental Ability, which would cost +216 points. Unless he somehow ignored the cap and pooled all his equipment ECL into one super-artifact, in which case he'd have a +240 item, or rather, a +28 weapon with a single Trans. ability on it, which, frankly, shouldn't be allowed by any means. The caps are there for a reason.

On the Sidereal scale, take an Old One

HD: 160
ECL: 320
Divine Abilities: 32
Equipment ECL: 107

He couldn't possibly take an Omnific ability (200 Divines or +1200 on an item), which is the way it should be.

Just wanted to say thanks to Belzamus for the replies in my absence. Appreciate it mate.

...and to anyone else who chimes in to threads while I'm away. I probably don't always type a thanks (mostly but not always) and I just want you guys to know its always appreciated.

Well, it's no problem for me. I feel bad for not participating more, but...well, just haven't been in the mood to design lately. Fielding questions is the least I can do.

Belzamus said:

Well, it's no problem for me. I feel bad for not participating more, but...well, just haven't been in the mood to design lately. Fielding questions is the least I can do.

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No worries about that mate, I am surprised anyone is still here. I haven't had anything released for about 2 years.

I think the new book (or books*) should fire up a bit of discussion again, rather than me posting about what I might release sometime in the future.

*hey I can dream can't I.

Upper_Krust said:

I haven't had anything released for about 2 years.

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Don't get me wrong, but even as easily sidetracked as you are and as busy as your life is. I can't help but notice (looking back at old threads) that ever since 4E came out there has been little to no progress or even interest in progress regarding epic level material.

It's like 4E came out, everyone got excited for a few months, then...

...crickets.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's 4E's fault, but I tend to think that many people were either more in favor of 3E or 3E just made game design more fun for most of the people visiting these threads. I'd personally like to see people creating and posting 3E material and 4E material side by side.

Example...Someone creates a template for 4E. They should create the same template for 3.5. Instead of bickering (which I've seen a lot of during my lengthy lurking period) and complaining about lack of epic material, people should just create it and share to pump up that creative spark.

There are a number of excellent designers here on your threads Krusty and in spite of their differences and perpetual ego bruising (some members more guilty than others, some not guilty at all), they all created a few interesting gems for my campaign.

Even that obnoxious Dante guy was useful (he just needed a bit of prozac or something).

Some of my favorite things on these threads include the superior half-dragon, the revised paragon, various divine abilities that were noted, the various epic, etc. dragons, and of course my absolute favorite...

...DEATH.

Although admittedly he was on the wiki thingie.

SIDENOTES: Can someone do a conversion of Immortal's Handbook Domains into Pathfinder Domains? They are very different from one another.

The remaining portfolios themselves are fine, but the domains function differently enough for it to be an issue.

Also, for those interested in undead-related feats, check out the World of Warcraft books. There are feats that let undead use their Charisma score in lieu of their Constitution score for both hit points and Fortitude saves.

Sykyrys said:

Some of my favorite things on these threads include the superior half-dragon

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Thanks!

That reminds me that one of these days I've got to update that template for the awesome new dragons that Paradox42 has since created.

Sykyrys said:

and of course my absolute favorite...

...DEATH.

Although admittedly he was on the wiki thingie.

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That he was! (link provided for ease of reference, and to fuel my ego .)

I keep telling myself that one of these days, I'm going to sit down and top Death by making stats for Tetragrammaton or Domodon-Doxomedon. It has yet to happen, but I haven't lost the desire to do so.

Would it be feasible to allow a character extra artifacts or divine abilities by virtue of a massive expenditure of quintessence?

This might raise their ECL, but, would it be possible?

I've been considering 3 options for my gamers that want extra divine abilities or extra artifacts.

Option #1: Allow the extra artifacts or extra divine abilities in exchange for a quintessence expenditure. Ruling that this particular ECL adjustment does not affect the power of their artifacts.

Option #2: As above, but forgo the ECL adjustment and rule that the Quintessence expenditure is significant enough of a sacrifice.

Option #3: Create a template called Praetorian (just an example name). Essentially give characters the benefit of additional thematic cosmic abilities, and additional divine abilities equal to their divine rank.

The last option is the most appealing to me since it fits in with the modular nature of templates and can be given some sort of thematic significance within a pantheon.

I.E. Praetorian gods are few and far between, and they are elected by a pantheon of gods to serve as a failsafe in case their pantheon head goes a little wacky.