Battleminds: OK defenders, fantastic... strikers?

I've been fooling around statting up a few Battlemind builds, trying to get a feel for how the class really works, especially with the odd mark features. One thing I noticed is some pretty nice synergy with Psychic Lock.

That's not what this post is about, though.

Does Brutal Barrage really interact with Hammer Rhythm the way I think it does? An at-will that guarantees 18 points of damage per round at paragon, 24 points if you spend one power point each round? I don't have a great feel for "typical" damage at paragon, but isn't this well into the striker range?

bganon said:

I've been fooling around statting up a few Battlemind builds, trying to get a feel for how the class really works, especially with the odd mark features. One thing I noticed is some pretty nice synergy with Psychic Lock.

That's not what this post is about, though.

Does Brutal Barrage really interact with Hammer Rhythm the way I think it does? An at-will that guarantees 18 points of damage per round at paragon, 24 points if you spend one power point each round? I don't have a great feel for "typical" damage at paragon, but isn't this well into the striker range?

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While I am not familiar with the Battlemind, if the power deals damage on a miss, Hammer Rhythm does not work, and if it deals bonus damage, that bonus damage can never stack with Hammer Rhythm.

So... it probably does not work that way.

No, Brutal Barrage is basically three attacks vs a single target, with CON modifier damage per hit (no weapon dice). There's also an effect line which adds "knock prone" if two or more attacks hit.

What I wasn't quite sure about is whether Hammer Rhythm deals CON modifier damage on each miss, or just once for the whole power. If it works per miss (as I think these feats generally do for multiattack powers), then you wind up dealing the same damage whether you hit or miss.

For the cost of a single power point, it changes to four attacks against one target. Getting CON modifier damage on each of those, even on a miss, even with no bonuses, means 24 damage (hit or miss) is easy to do, as having a +6 CON modifier at paragon isn't really that hard.

So 24 damage per round at the cost of one power point (a paragon psionic character will generally have 9 points per encounter, so this is pretty close to at-will). It's been a while since I went through all the math, but isn't that close to typical striker damage in rounds where they use encounter powers?

If that's the case, the power is also pretty silly. It makes me want to build a battlemind who carries a tiny plastic hammer and just uses it for that power. Magic bonuses and weapon dice don't matter at all.

Well, it could be the glorious return of the weapon golf bag.

For some actual in-play striker damage, my level 16 Stormwarden deals a minimum of 28 damage per round to a single target (assuming he is adjacent to a target and can make OAs). That's if he misses with both Twin-Strike attacks. If there's a second target nearby, he does another 7 to it.

If he hits, it's usually around 1d8+15-20 for the main hand/1d8+9-14 for the off hand, +2d8 quarry, then the extra 14-21 at the end of his turn (so, somewhere in the 40-50s for damage if he hits with both attacks and the enemy is cold vulnerable).

Encounter powers add about 6 damage per hit(and some nice riders).

Our Daggermaster does about 1d4+3d8+15 or so with Sly Flourish, so around 30 damage. Of course, when he crits(1-2 times a fight on average), he gets somewhere between 90-110 damage for the hit.

Our warlock does a bit less damage - probably in the 20s for at-will damage, but he has more AoEs and status effects.

As a contrast, our paladin's at-will damage is somewhere in the mid-teens (1d10+12 or so) since he's not specialized for damage.

As a caveat, our group used rolled stats (since we started when 4e just came out and hadn't migrated to point-buy yet). Knock off 1-2 points of damage per-hit/miss/auto-damage from my ranger and a bit more from the rogue if you modify them to point-buy. Also, our group is powergamer heavy, so the characters are fairly optimized (Ranger all-around, Rogue for crit damage and some encounter stun/daze attacks, Warlock for decent AoE damage, Cleric for great heals and decent AoEs, Paladin for durability).

It's not bad for a defender. The Cha build is a sub-striker, so that seems fine. At 15th with no magic items aside from the big three:

The avenger in my game deals around 30-50 damage a round on average and misses once an encounter, from what I've seen. He usually crits at least once an encounter for something in the 115-145ish range, sometimes twice.

The rogue does a consistent 35-60 damage a round, and crits all over the place too (daggermaster). He misses a little more and doesn't deal as much on a crit but he has a lot more utility in his powers.

The sorcerer rarely needs to roll over a 4 to hit. He deals a consistent 25-35 with burning spray to two or more targets most rounds and sets up lasting frost/wintertouched to make his successive attacks hit on a 2 and deal 30-40. Also plenty of crits due to how many rolls he gets to make.

Our bard does about 15-20 damage most rounds, peaking around 30. However he hands out so many pluses that he may contribute more damage than any other single party member some fights. he also turns the enemies into pinatas filled with delicious candy and keeps us alive.

My paladin, finally, is lucky to do 15 damage and I believe his best crit was in the 50 range with a radiant daily power on an undead. His AC is about 4-5 points better than anyone else and hosplitars blessing pretty much makes him in-ignorable. He also grants crazy numbers and bonuses to saves and throws out attack penalties all over the place. A nearly fully defensive build, and he needs it (so many times this resistance or that item or honored foe have been the only reason I'm still alive at the end of a fight).

So, no. Those numbers sound quite reasonable and since they don't scale with anything but Con I'm pretty unimpressed overall. You need to dip into Str a bit to make this work, and some of the Cha kickers are nice...

It's decent damage, certainly. To compare to some non-strikers, my (around that level) warlord tends to hit for 2d10+13, my fighter for 1d10+18, bard 1d6+17. My one striker at that level is a barbarian that I suppose hits for about 1d12+3d6+16. More under a bunch of not so rare circumstances, and he's sorta built as a defender anyways. I tend to favor a lot of multitarget powers, though - I'd much rather hit many different targets with my fighter and keep them all marked for example.

So yeah, that's pretty good damage. 18 hit or miss that prones a fair amount of the time is a very good at-will.

If that is how the power works, it seems overpowered in my mind. Kind of silly to able to do that kind of damage on hit or miss at will. Even without the power point its decent automatic damage.

Miss at-will damage shouldn't exceed the damage on a hit for other class at wills...just feels wrong. Of course, I can't really judge it until I see the Battlemind in action.

It only does that with a feat. . .

Jay