4e Against the Giants vs Revenge of the Giants?

S'mon · Feb 14, 2010

4e Against the Giants vs Revenge of the Giants?

I like giants, I have lots of giant minis, I'd like to run a big Paragon-tier adventure some time, and I possess a dog-eared ebay-acquired copy of 1e's Against the Giants.

I am considering the merits of running it, or parts of it, converted to 4e, versus splashing out for the 4e hardback Revenge of the Giants.

What would you say were the strengths and weaknesses of each approach? What does 'Revenge' have that 'Against' doesn't, and vice versa?

I would be running it in my own campaign world, probably as part of a larger plot where the alien Sword Ruler Chaos Gods and their Mabden followers (all based on the same from Moorcock's Corum books) are seeking to conquer the world.

Crothian · Feb 15, 2010

Revenge has a better over all plot. Against might not work as well in 4e with 4e's assumption of larger battles. There are some encounters with one giant and that might be too easy depending on lots of factors.

Revenge has less mapped out but more options. It is more modular. In Against once you are in one of the three giant places there is little room to go do something else.

Against is a classic series of adventures that everyone should experience in one edition at least once in their life. Revenge has that new smell and you can probably find more 4e people on the boards that are doing it to discuss issues and the way things work.

Revenge has no conversion since it is written for this edition. Depending on how easy or difficult one feels on converting modules Against could be a real pain in the ass.

This is more opinion based but Revenge has more of an epic feel and a defiant feeling of accomplishment at the end. Against has that some but at least from just the modules there is not much of the sense of need to safe the world.

From a general sense and not necessarily an accurate one people like Against much, much more then they like Revenge.

I've read and am working on a review of Revenge. I've not done any playing of it. Against I have ran multiple times through all three modules in almost every edition of the game except for 4e. That's my credentials with the products in case you were wondering. Best of luck!

S'mon · Feb 15, 2010

Thanks Crothian, that's helpful!

I would be running it as a save-the-world campaign-capper, so I definitely want an 'epic' (well, mid-Paragon) feel, which might argue for Revenge. I've ordered it and will give the matter more consideration. A poster on rpgnet suggested running Against, but cannibalise Revenge for nuggets of good stuff.

...On a related matter, anyone know of any myth sources for Loki and Surt being the same entity? >

Dedekind · Feb 15, 2010

You may want to acquire a copy of the 25th anniversary 2E addition of Against the Giants. It has an epic plot line (free the country of Geoff from giants) but incorporates the original giant locations from the 1E version. You can really mine it for detailed locations and most areas have hooks in them. It also can give you a plot line to riff off of. (The "Eyebiter" was a favorite NPC for my players.)

I didn't like the plot of Revenge very much, but it might be because Revenge has almost nothing to do with Against. I think you can make them fit together easily. In Against, the BBEGs are cloud giants and I think you can make that fit.

Dedekind · Feb 15, 2010

Eh, I wasn't very clear on one point. The 25th anniversary edition details all of Geoff, so you have a full country detailed. It also provides 2E versions of the original 3 giant adventures, which you might find easier to convert to 4e (or not). However, the two are not strongly tied together, so you can mix and match as much as you want. One of the problems with Revenge and the 1E Against are that they don't really give you much of a back drop to work with. The 2E version gives you a background as well as a cloud giant location, all of which could easily slide behind Revenge.

Crothian · Feb 15, 2010

The 2e Silver version is pretty good with a lot more added detail. I do like it, but I';m not sure how easy it is to find a copy if S'mon doesn't already have one. I know at a time those 25th anniversary books went out of print that they became a bit of a collectors item fast.

Cyronax · Feb 15, 2010

S'mon said:
4e Against the Giants vs Revenge of the Giants?

What would you say were the strengths and weaknesses of each approach? What does 'Revenge' have that 'Against' doesn't, and vice versa?

I can only speak to 'Revenge,' since I haven't DMed or played the 'Against the Giants' modules. From what I've heard about them though, I think Crotihian is on the money.

I am using elements of 'Revenge' for my current heroic tier campaign. As Crothian mentioned, 'Revenge' is very modular, but I also think it holds together well. One of the things I liked the best were the detailed and varied skill challenges.

I think 'Revenge' is the first 4e module I've perused that didn't feel railroaded or overly linear.

Overall, I think 'Revenge' is a great toolbox for 4e DM's -- and I must emphasize that I'm using elements of it for a heroic tier, vice paragon, campaign, which bespeaks it coolness.

It also has a rather cool city setting in it called Argent, which I incorporated into my Norse-themed campaign as the base of the Rainbow Bridge that leads to the heavenly worlds of Asgard, Alfheim, and Valhalla.

C.I.D.

S'mon · Feb 15, 2010

Dedekind said:
Eh, I wasn't very clear on one point. The 25th anniversary edition details all of Geoff, so you have a full country detailed.

I'll be running it in my own campaign world, not Greyhawk, so absence of detailed background is a plus.

S'mon · Feb 15, 2010

Cyronax said:
I think 'Revenge' is the first 4e module I've perused that didn't feel railroaded or overly linear.

That's good to hear, thanks.

Re Argent, not sure if I'lll insert it in my own campaign world or use it as one of the already-existing cities. How big is it? Anything funky about it?

Jan van Leyden · Feb 15, 2010

S'mon said:
Re Argent, not sure if I'lll insert it in my own campaign world or use it as one of the already-existing cities. How big is it? Anything funky about it?

Both questions can be answered with one reply. Argent's current population is 2. At its height it was more like 15,000.