Zin's Character Sheet

Nytmare · Feb 22, 2010

Nifelhein said:
I have thought about that, it is probably possible to do a template picker much like programs are importing the saved character, then tell it to apply XSL templates and violá!

There are a handful of problems associated with having something that reads .dnd4e files. The biggest is that the file itself is a freaking mess, but running a close second in my mind is that the file itself doesn't store any of the power, feat, or ability descriptions. It unfortunately relies on the Character Generator to supply all of that info.

So you either need to have the user input all that info (which is a pain, especially when the primary thing you're going for is automation), or you need a program that #1 has to be updated every single time they put out a new book or magazine, and #2 is technically considered copyright infringement and will result in a cease and desist if you make it accessible to the public.

There are a handful of dnd4e readers out there at the moment, though there are nowhere near as many as there should be, and I don't think that any of them allow you to really customize your own character sheets.

Zinovia · Feb 22, 2010

Rachel said:
Unfortunately, I can't play with you b/c I live in NH of all places. But I would like to.

Thanks for the compliment!

Also, I absolutely like having the "calculation boxes" on a character sheet, and prefer to use a sheet with those. For me they are must. I want to be able to see where all my mods are coming from...

I tend to feel the same way, but removing them would be good if the goal is a more streamlined simple sheet, especially for new gamers, pregens for convention use, or kids. So I may do a version without them, but like you, I want to see where a given number came from, and be able to update things on the fly if I get a new item during a session.

BTW, I make character sheets in MS paint (how archaic, I know!).

I use a Mac, so I really wouldn't know.

I used Adobe InDesign for most of the work, along with Photoshop, and Acrobat to turn it into a form.

I do regret not having a portrait on there. I'd have to get rid of the Background section and reduce the Senses box to really fit a reasonable portrait on the front. Maybe I'll try that.

Zinovia · Feb 22, 2010

Nytmare said:
There are a handful of problems associated with having something that reads .dnd4e files. The biggest is that the file itself is a freaking mess, but running a close second in my mind is that the file itself doesn't store any of the power, feat, or ability descriptions. It unfortunately relies on the Character Generator to supply all of that info.

Yes, I have taken a look at the files in a text editor. I wasn't sure if it was pulling the information from the Compendium, or from an internal database, but the data is definitely not encoded in the output file.

So you either need to have the user input all that info (which is a pain, especially when the primary thing you're going for is automation), or you need a program that #1 has to be updated every single time they put out a new book or magazine, and #2 is technically considered copyright infringement and will result in a cease and desist if you make it accessible to the public.

I'm not about to make something that would knowingly violate the GSL, so we'll see what is possible. I was hoping we could use the Compendium for the data, but that requires you to have a subscription and be online when using it. It's likely the best solution, if it can be done at all.

It would be great if the sheet could be filled out automatically from a character builder file, but I'm not sure it's possible. There are limitations with PDF forms as well that could create issues. I went with PDF to control the look of the sheet better than HTML. Because it embeds everything, you don't need to worry about missing fonts, or variations in how the HTML is interpreted. The HTML 5 standard adds a lot more control there, but it's not commonly used as of yet.

For now, I am filling these out using Adobe Reader, based on the official sheet from the CB. Maybe someday it will be easier to make non-ugly sheets from the CB. I just find the official sheets very bland, and a touch hard to find information on quickly. Combat takes long enough already without newer players having to find their defenses quickly on a number-filled page.

AbdulAlhazred · Feb 22, 2010

Zinovia said:
Yes, I have taken a look at the files in a text editor. I wasn't sure if it was pulling the information from the Compendium, or from an internal database, but the data is definitely not encoded in the output file.

I'm not about to make something that would knowingly violate the GSL, so we'll see what is possible. I was hoping we could use the Compendium for the data, but that requires you to have a subscription and be online when using it. It's likely the best solution, if it can be done at all.

It would be great if the sheet could be filled out automatically from a character builder file, but I'm not sure it's possible. There are limitations with PDF forms as well that could create issues. I went with PDF to control the look of the sheet better than HTML. Because it embeds everything, you don't need to worry about missing fonts, or variations in how the HTML is interpreted. The HTML 5 standard adds a lot more control there, but it's not commonly used as of yet.

For now, I am filling these out using Adobe Reader, based on the official sheet from the CB. Maybe someday it will be easier to make non-ugly sheets from the CB. I just find the official sheets very bland, and a touch hard to find information on quickly. Combat takes long enough already without newer players having to find their defenses quickly on a number-filled page.

Well.... There is a technical solution. You get a program that downloads ALL the XML data from the Compendium. Now you have the xmlid values for all the different things that get referenced in the .dnd4e XML. At that point you can use some clever XSLT and merge that data into your sheet.

This won't break the GSL as long as you just supply the downloader, the XSLT, and whatever else the program needs to build the final sheet. It SHOULD work and will be 'legal'. WotC has set up DDI such that you can use tools like this and there is a power card maker tool around that does pretty much the same thing. Its script (perl) is pretty smart about only downloading deltas off the Compendium as well, so its actually not that bad.

I have a copy of the script. Haven't really looked at it much, but it looks fairly modular and I think I can reuse the "get stuff from DDI" part (they also have some weird Windows-only perl GUI built into the whole thing, so some surgery is required). Anyway I'll look through the code and see what I can come up with. I really want to do some other stuff like Maptool tokens with .dnd4e files anyway, so it could help all of us.

Nytmare · Feb 23, 2010

AbdulAlhazred said:
This won't break the GSL as long as you just supply the downloader, the XSLT, and whatever else the program needs to build the final sheet.

It unfortunately leaves the chunk of the community that does monthly subscriptions every blue moon out in the lurch however.

AbdulAlhazred · Feb 23, 2010

Nytmare said:
It unfortunately leaves the chunk of the community that does monthly subscriptions every blue moon out in the lurch however.

Well, maybe I didn't explain it very well. The script downloads ALL of the Compendium to your hard drive. That is all the XML at least. Once you have it, you don't ever need to go online again except for updates. Now, that isn't to say you couldn't build a tool that would ALLOW you to update your sheet for new rules every time you used it, but its not strictly necessary. The folks that only have now-and-then access to DDI can just update now and then.

It would be fine if they could hand edit stuff in the mean time or instead, but I'd call that a feature someone could potentially add.

Nytmare · Feb 23, 2010

I did misunderstand you. I imagined a program that said "Hey this character has Insipid Gesticulation! Go to the compendium and find out what it does! Ok, now copy it over to the character sheet we're making."

I wonder if a program like that would step on any toes at WOTC. I also wonder how big a 4E SRD would be.

Rachel · Feb 23, 2010

Sorry, this has nothing to do with Zin's topic, but:

@Abdul Alhazred: The Necronomicon is so WIN.

Zinovia · Feb 26, 2010

Updated

I updated the sheet to add a portrait area on page 2, and changed the Senses box a bit on page 1. I added colored rings to the AC, Initiative, and Speed bonuses on page 1 to correspond to those on page 2.

There's no way that I know of for a user to input a graphic into an Acrobat form, but I'm still looking into that. It'd be nice if it were easy to just drop a graphic in there. I can do it in InDesign or Acrobat, but not in Adobe Reader.

I will also put up a version that doesn't include the form fields, for anyone who wants to use paper and pencil. But I can't make the PDF for that right this moment.

Nifelhein · Feb 26, 2010

Gnomestew made a pdf that you could change the imae of, you can find it here: Not Just a Token Gift… - Gnome Stew, the Game Mastering Blog

In case it helps you.

Zin's Character Sheet

Nytmare

David Jose

Zinovia

Explorer

Zinovia

Explorer

AbdulAlhazred

Legend

Nytmare

David Jose

AbdulAlhazred

Legend

Nytmare

David Jose

Rachel

First Post

Zinovia

Explorer

Nifelhein

First Post

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