Proposal: Allow Character Builder summary sheets in place of EW templates - Page 3




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  1. #21
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    I just spent an hour formating my character page in the wiki. When I hit 'save' I got an error and lost everything. The current method is a pain in the ass. Please implement this proposal.
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  • #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by On Puget Sound View Post
    Did you mean to put this comment in this other proposal?
    yes... [shakes head in frustration]
    Last edited by CaBaNa; Tuesday, 23rd February, 2010 at 02:44 AM.
    MAGIC!

  • #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanzuo View Post
    I just spent an hour formating my character page in the wiki. When I hit 'save' I got an error and lost everything. The current method is a pain in the ass. Please implement this proposal.
    How would this change what happened? With any document, if you don't save often you run the risk of losing info. A pain?; yes but that's how it works. I learned that a LONG time ago when I was typing up my term paper...

    Quote Originally Posted by ryryguy
    I guess I just don't understand why a CB file (or summary that then gets imported into the program) cannot take the place of the math template. Basically, the CB is checking the math for you at that point.
    My response would be that I don't understand why you think everyone HAS CB. I can't see allowing CB when the checker may not have it. What do they do then? How do they "quickly check the houserule flags" or "open the character sheet in CB" when they don't have it? If this proposal passes, it's pretty much telling everyone that they NEED CB to play here.

  • #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by elecgraystone View Post
    My response would be that I don't understand why you think everyone HAS CB. I can't see allowing CB when the checker may not have it. What do they do then? How do they "quickly check the houserule flags" or "open the character sheet in CB" when they don't have it? If this proposal passes, it's pretty much telling everyone that they NEED CB to play here.
    I don't think everyone has CB and I don't think anything in this proposal requires everyone to have CB. Why do you think it does? People without CB could still use the current math templates. No one needs CB to make a sheet.

    Now, this proposal would require some number of the judges and checkers to have CB. Is it not the case that many or most judges and checkers have CB?

    I also think that a judge/checker who does have CB and uses the summary or file for checking will be able to check a character sheet more quickly and efficiently. I haven't done any checking myself so I could definitely be mistaken in that belief. So, am I correct or not?

    (Judges/checkers without CB could still check the sheets of those players who don't have CB or choose to use the old Math templates anyway. If nearly everyone starts using CB in their sheets... then it would seem that nearly everyone has it and can use it for checking, right?)

    If all the above beliefs and assumptions are true, judges and checkers could work through the approval backlog more quickly, and players who have CB could create their sheets more quickly. Barrier to entry for new players with CB would be lowered. This would be a significant improvement to the community.

    If any of the above beliefs and assumptions are not true, I'd love to hear why. If not, then frankly worries about who has CB and "requiring" CB are beside the point.

    Finally, if the proposal is implemented and doesn't work out well, we could always go back to the current method. Nothing would be lost.
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  • #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryryguy View Post
    I don't think everyone has CB and I don't think anything in this proposal requires everyone to have CB. Why do you think it does? People without CB could still use the current math templates. No one needs CB to make a sheet.

    Now, this proposal would require some number of the judges and checkers to have CB. Is it not the case that many or most judges and checkers have CB?

    I also think that a judge/checker who does have CB and uses the summary or file for checking will be able to check a character sheet more quickly and efficiently. I haven't done any checking myself so I could definitely be mistaken in that belief. So, am I correct or not?

    (Judges/checkers without CB could still check the sheets of those players who don't have CB or choose to use the old Math templates anyway. If nearly everyone starts using CB in their sheets... then it would seem that nearly everyone has it and can use it for checking, right?)

    If all the above beliefs and assumptions are true, judges and checkers could work through the approval backlog more quickly, and players who have CB could create their sheets more quickly. Barrier to entry for new players with CB would be lowered. This would be a significant improvement to the community.

    If any of the above beliefs and assumptions are not true, I'd love to hear why. If not, then frankly worries about who has CB and "requiring" CB are beside the point.

    Finally, if the proposal is implemented and doesn't work out well, we could always go back to the current method. Nothing would be lost.
    ^^ This

  • #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryryguy View Post

    If all the above beliefs and assumptions are true, judges and checkers could work through the approval backlog more quickly, and players who have CB could create their sheets more quickly.
    Just an FYI, we're pretty much caught up right now

    Most of the PC's awaiting approval have had their sheets looked at and we're waiting for feedback. ScorpiusRisk has helped out a lot to get us caught up.

    Category:L4W:Requesting Approval - ENWiki

  • #27
    Quote Originally Posted by ryryguy View Post
    If any of the above beliefs and assumptions are not true, I'd love to hear why. If not, then frankly worries about who has CB and "requiring" CB are beside the point.
    Not having a math section that's readable without CB mean that you are "requiring" anyone that wants to look at said math section to have it. At a minimum that'd be every GM, Judge and checker. As a player that often looks at others sheets so see how/why they did something, it'd be a 'requirement' for me.

    Bottom line, do you think it's fine to exclude some GM's, Judges and checkers from seeing the math section? I don't. I think they should be able to just look it up insted of having to find someone with CB to do it for them. You'd translate a possible time saving for one character into a time delay for everyone in an adventure if the GM is waiting for someone else to look up information.

    I'll take all of this back if indeed every GM, Judge and Checker (now and in the future) in fact does have CB.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryryguy View Post
    (Judges/checkers without CB could still check the sheets of those players who don't have CB or choose to use the old Math templates anyway. If nearly everyone starts using CB in their sheets... then it would seem that nearly everyone has it and can use it for checking, right?)
    How does this help judges and GM that don't have CB and have players that have no math section?
    Last edited by elecgraystone; Tuesday, 23rd February, 2010 at 07:47 PM.

  • #28
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    I'm not saying we should go ahead and get rid of the math section, but I do know that I've never looked at a player's math section in any of the games I've DM'd. That's what the judges/reviewers are for. I have looked at Player's summary sections at the top of the CS, but never the math.

  • #29
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    While I understand elec's position on a player wanting to be able to look at the numbers, the math section is for the reviewers and always has been since LEW and old LEB (in LEW/oLEB it wasn't even required, just requested).

    I'll turn the argument a bit around: How many folks are we losing because the template formatting for the math section drives them away? We have some evidence that it does.
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  • #30
    I wish I knew more about coding because it seems to me that the best thing would be a middle ground where you didn't have to look at the code when you filled out the sheet, but instead had a chart like the one you see when viewing a completed sheet that you could fill in the numbers on. That chart is easier to read and understand what needs to go where.

    It seems like it's looking at the coding itself, as a large block of garbled symbols and abbreviations that aren't always obvious to understand, that is really scaring people away. Otherwise, it isn't much more effort than writing up a character sheet by hand.

    Thus if we could figure out how to make it work that we had a chart template instead of a code template, things might be easier for everyone. Obviously, there'd need to be code behind the chart to do the math, but I think you see what I'm saying here.


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