Friday, 26th February, 2010, 12:17 AM #81
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Defender (Lvl 8)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Roslindale MA 02131
ø Ignore ScorpiusRisk
Just Started fooling around with Google Docs Spreadsheet and I already feel really good about this. I'll have something substantial within the next few days. If I can't sleep, something to see by tomorrow.
Current Work: http://stuffershack.com/tag/brian-liberge/
Acolyte (Lvl 2)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Orange, CA
ø Ignore Kalidrev
Awesome, Scorp! I look forward to seeing something substantial!
Cutpurse (Lvl 5)
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
- Seattle, WA
ø Ignore ryryguy
You know, a lot of the requirements listed by evilbob could be met by pages on a wiki but without using code templates. Basically just "plain text doc" on a wiki would still give you a common place to store things, plus a page history that could be tracked and viewed.
The advantage of the templates to make the summary on the current sheets is just that it outputs a nice, consistent format, which is definitely a plus. But that's not an absolute requirement. A simple template for the sheet - not a code template, but just a sort of pre-formatted example sheet you could fill in and use for cutting and pasting - might produce results that are almost as good, and would almost certainly be less work to fill out.
That would still leave math for character checking. If the CB summary can stand in for that, then great for those who have CB. Those without CB could still do it "long hand", or maybe an excel/google doc spreadsheet could be made for that limited purpose.
Part of the point of a template is that you can put in one number once and then it fills itself in multiple times. I'm not knocking the "fill out a page" idea, but it is undeniably slower. Quick vs. easy.
Now if we had a sheet where all you do is plug in the number once and that's it, that would be awesome. However, that's not how it is now. If I have to pick taking time out to long hand a sheet and taking time pulling my hair out trying to figure out the wiki templates, I'm going with the longhand even if it takes the same amount of time. At least longhand isn't frustrating and tiring plus everyone understands the longhand right out of the gate and can start a sheet with right away.
And to comment on what you said 'it is undeniably slower.'. Really? IMO I could make a character sheet from scratch in the time I finish a wiki character and I'd do it much quicker if we start with a blank sheet and fill in the boxes.
To reply to ryryguy, I'd personally like nothing better than to never see a wiki sheet ever again. That's why the goggle option makes me smile. If we can make wiki work so that we just type in normally and we don't use any coding, I might change my mind. Maybe...
I'd be all for a CB file or a excel math section attached to whatever we end up with. The plus of excel is that it's easy to understand and fill out with auto math adding things up. If we leave it as just the basics (hp, defenses, skills) it shouldn't be hard at all to do. If we could add the excel directly into the sheet that'd be even better but I have no idea if that's a viable idea.
Defender (Lvl 8)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Ann Arbor, MI
ø Ignore covaithe
But we can't afford to grow too quickly, either. Right now we have plenty of DMs for our player base, and we're (barely) keeping up with judging responsibilities. But if we got 50 new players tomorrow, well, that would be messy.
L4e test Wiki
Someone should try copying and pasting our templates over there, and a character sheet or two, just to see if it still works outside of enworld.
I'm not thinking about wikia with a mind towards changing our character sheets or improving reviewability or anything like that (so this is a bit off-topic), just thinking of trying to preserve the information content of the wiki for when Morrus gets around to shutting it off.
As for relative ease and speed, wiki vs. hand sheets: I guess honestly it comes down to "what you are used to." I understand the wiki pages very well now, although I spent about a full day to do it. But now I could fill them out very quickly. Hand sheets are slow, but if you're used to them, you could also fill them out quickly (or at least, as in your case, faster than the wiki). Neither are particularly fast for newbies, tho.
Case in point: Trying to type in one of the new summon druid powers, summon pack wolf. Do you know how many BLANKing time I tried to get it to BLANKing show the BLANKing instinctive effects? I lost count... If it'd been my first character, there would have been a good chance I'd have given up.
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