Binder Fred
3 rings to bind them all!
Um [MENTION=88649]perrinmiller[/MENTION]? If you read the post just previous to yours, you'll see that both Mir and Sloor have just entered the Cargo hold...
Star Wars Saga: The Dawn of Defiance [OOC Thread]
Binder Fred
3 rings to bind them all!
My character doesn't know that though (unless Sirona expects it to take weeks or something?). For storytelling reasons, can we say he did and leave it at that for now? That way I have the feeling that the bases have been covered.
Definitively in the last planning stages.
perrinmiller
Adventurer
Binder, I’m afraid we did explain our points very well.
The point is the clutter and crutches used to keep multiple scenes together in one thread are causing issues and not moving things along faster. This is the exact opposite of their purpose. Because, if things were moving along, I would be playing Sonja and not Mack.
You know that without those quotes, OOC explanations, and cues for response, it would be too confusing. The change is to eliminate the confusion completely AND not use those crutches, at all. We all should just write our posts so we don't NEED the quotes or the OOC explanations and prompts for other people. This should actually improve role-playing and writing for all concerned.
That means everyone would be writing and posting in the here and now of the scene. No retcon to go back. Everyone uses the narration to place their character in the scene and moves them around. When the scene moves on, it moves on.
If the party splits up, then a post header to indicate where they are is all that is needed during the separation. But the characters cannot be in two places at once and time runs concurrently for both groups.
Everything that is in a side-scene that is truly important could be dealt with at its appropriate time and not as a side scene. Being important, then it deserves a mainstream scene later on with all our characters present and participating. And it should be relevant to upcoming scenes to follow shortly, not scenes that we will not get to until 4-5 months down the road.
If we keep trying to solve plot issues 2-3 steps ahead, most likely things will be changed by the scenes in between. What is happening now is we keep beating dead horses and repeating topics of conversation after a few months. Pretty much because everyone forgets things that happened 3-4 months before and the IC thread is a chaotic mess and hard to read.
While there are players that need those techniques you developed, Binder, this group does not. All of the stalling you see in our game is caused by the IC thread being confusing and hard to read. Trying to go back and find important information amidst the continually beating of dead horses and repetitive character discussions is not fun and too time consuming.
By not using those OOC cues and sticking with a focus on the current scene, it should keep everyone more engaged and not take anything away from the game itself.
By making things better for all concerned, I believe some of us will write more content and post more often as they have increased enjoyment and excitement as things progress.
perrinmiller
Adventurer
I thought we were in a hurry to leave the ship according to Darius. With that in mind, I took Mir was meaning that it was time to get moving. So I posted Mack following along when that happened. But, I edited that part out now, since we are staying in the Cargo Hold to keep talking.
Binder Fred
3 rings to bind them all!
There have been no repetitive conversations or beating of any dead horses. If we return to a topic (the nature/extent of the Sarlacc project, for example), it's because 1. it's important to at least two of us and 2. it hasn't been solved to everyone/anyone's satisfaction the first time(s) around. It has nothing to do with not remembering the previous conversation. I keep a log of all my games, including this one, and I can tell you that it reads very nicely indeed, with none of your imaginary repetitive discussions.
To be frank, I think part of that problem is that you simply have too many concurrrently ongoing games (30+ in three years?). It seems only fair/appropriate that you trim down on your own split-timelines, since I must trim down on mine. Don't let me be the only one that has to make compromises. That also is not very fun.
I also disagree on two of your base concepts: "important enough" (who decides this? I, for example, obviously decided that all the scenes Sloor roleplayed were important enough to pour my precious time and creative energy into. Most importantly, it's in the very nature of roleplaying with actual people that you *cannot* predict when something one considers secondary will turn into something bigger/completely un-expected (read the scene just past sometimes if you want a rather telling example))... Just out morbid curiosity, which ones of the scenes we've roleplayed since the begining of this game would you consider "not important enough" to bother with?
Secondly, "when the scene moves on" (again, who decides this? Mack obviously decided the mess hall scene was over. He was, rather obviously too, quite mistaken).
Three, some scene simply will not work with all characters present.
In conclusion, no, I do not think forcing the group to wander around like a glued-together committee is a good idea. I will keep things in the present as much as possible (with the possible exception of reaction shots and side-line commentaries (like during the Verana-Varth briefing at the beginning of the present chapter, for example)) since that seems to be the will of the majority, but Sloor *will* continue to react to things organically. What I specifically seek in PbP is the freedom to play my characters to their fullest, the freedom to build a 'novel-worthy' story with three to five other thinking/feeling individuals. I will not give that up without a fight as, without that freedom, there is no point for me. I might as well spend my not-that-plentiful free time playing MMORPGs.
To be frank, I think part of that problem is that you simply have too many concurrrently ongoing games (30+ in three years?). It seems only fair/appropriate that you trim down on your own split-timelines, since I must trim down on mine. Don't let me be the only one that has to make compromises. That also is not very fun.
You and I both know this is not going to happen. Scenes are either played when the need for them emerges or they are not played at all.
I also disagree on two of your base concepts: "important enough" (who decides this? I, for example, obviously decided that all the scenes Sloor roleplayed were important enough to pour my precious time and creative energy into. Most importantly, it's in the very nature of roleplaying with actual people that you *cannot* predict when something one considers secondary will turn into something bigger/completely un-expected (read the scene just past sometimes if you want a rather telling example))... Just out morbid curiosity, which ones of the scenes we've roleplayed since the begining of this game would you consider "not important enough" to bother with?
Secondly, "when the scene moves on" (again, who decides this? Mack obviously decided the mess hall scene was over. He was, rather obviously too, quite mistaken).
Three, some scene simply will not work with all characters present.
In conclusion, no, I do not think forcing the group to wander around like a glued-together committee is a good idea. I will keep things in the present as much as possible (with the possible exception of reaction shots and side-line commentaries (like during the Verana-Varth briefing at the beginning of the present chapter, for example)) since that seems to be the will of the majority, but Sloor *will* continue to react to things organically. What I specifically seek in PbP is the freedom to play my characters to their fullest, the freedom to build a 'novel-worthy' story with three to five other thinking/feeling individuals. I will not give that up without a fight as, without that freedom, there is no point for me. I might as well spend my not-that-plentiful free time playing MMORPGs.
perrinmiller
Adventurer
Sorry, I cannot help it if you don't understand and focus on other issues. The number of games I play makes me way more experienced than when we started, the post count here at EnWorld is about 20% of my total.
I tried to be constructive and explain. You are not interested in respecting my opinion and I am done wasting my time. The others were smart to not discuss with you, it was pointless.
If I don't enjoy the game going forward, I will just walk away. It is that simple.
I tried to be constructive and explain. You are not interested in respecting my opinion and I am done wasting my time. The others were smart to not discuss with you, it was pointless.
If I don't enjoy the game going forward, I will just walk away. It is that simple.
Binder Fred
3 rings to bind them all!
You say the clutter and crutches are the problem and they are gone. Now you're advocating scene cutting, restricted discussions and not even thinking about plot issues that are not right in front of our faces (as that likely refers to "How do we get into Bespin?", I will point out that that *is* the very next thing we need to worry about after the corpsicle side-plot). Not immediately agreeing with you is not disrespect, nor is asking specific examples of how past situations would have been improved by your proposed guidelines, seeing as how 95%+ of our discussions already center on how to achieve the next plot point or, more recently, what the next plot point to be achieved should be. Since those are apparently not the focus of the discussion, could you state what is in one sentence or less, please? That would likely help things tremendously.
The problem as I see it, Perrin, is that you and I want different things from our games. The issues I focus on are therefore the issues that are important to my enjoyment of a PbP game, which are markedly different from yours. I do not count a game's success by how quickly it can get to the next plot point, for one. I count success on the quality of the story we build together getting there. Measures meant to drastically cut into the latter in favor of the former (bareboning a game) are therefore not likely to gain favor in my book. Why you seem to think your goals are the only ones that should be furthered, that they are the only ones that have an impact on our overall enjoyment of the game as a group, in short that a middle ground is something that should not even be attempted, sort of escapes me.
My message is clear: 1. In the "keep it in the present" rule you have what you say you want 2. My feeling is that you will not get more without fatally cutting into *my* enjoyment, which is just as important as yours, so please desist, and 3. By its very nature, the new system will give you simplicity; it will not give you speed, as either of us define it. I therefore deeply hope that the fruits of that simplicity will be enough for you and Songdragon, as I usually enjoy this game very much, and have for three years, *despite* the clutter and the crutches.
Your friend if you will still have me,¸
Fred.
The problem as I see it, Perrin, is that you and I want different things from our games. The issues I focus on are therefore the issues that are important to my enjoyment of a PbP game, which are markedly different from yours. I do not count a game's success by how quickly it can get to the next plot point, for one. I count success on the quality of the story we build together getting there. Measures meant to drastically cut into the latter in favor of the former (bareboning a game) are therefore not likely to gain favor in my book. Why you seem to think your goals are the only ones that should be furthered, that they are the only ones that have an impact on our overall enjoyment of the game as a group, in short that a middle ground is something that should not even be attempted, sort of escapes me.
My message is clear: 1. In the "keep it in the present" rule you have what you say you want 2. My feeling is that you will not get more without fatally cutting into *my* enjoyment, which is just as important as yours, so please desist, and 3. By its very nature, the new system will give you simplicity; it will not give you speed, as either of us define it. I therefore deeply hope that the fruits of that simplicity will be enough for you and Songdragon, as I usually enjoy this game very much, and have for three years, *despite* the clutter and the crutches.
Your friend if you will still have me,¸
Fred.
Binder Fred
3 rings to bind them all!
perrinmiller
Adventurer
I think the trooper armor requires you to wear a body glove, taking considerable time. I think it is 10 minutes total, IIRC.
I will wait for SD to reply before posting Mack again.
I will wait for SD to reply before posting Mack again.
possum
First Post
Yeah, we can.
