Fudging for fun and profit.

Kzach · Mar 1, 2010

An age old question came up in the 4e rules forum about DM's hiding their rolls and reminded me of a topic I've been meaning to start for awhile and kept forgetting about.

Do you fudge the dice rolls?

I'm a pretty stalwart proponent of letting the dice fall where they may. To me, a big part of the fun and excitement of the game is overcoming the challenges put in front of me. A DM who cheats in my favour is, I feel, cheating me out of the thrill of success or failure at the hand of fate.

Sure, skill, roleplaying, character abilities, all that should have an impact, but one of the big attractions to me of rolling a d20 is hoping against hope that I roll that mystical, magical, wonderful 20.

And then rolling a 1.

I used to get into arguments about granularity and bell curves on usenet gamer groups. I tried to create the perfect d33 system. But at the end of the day, there is nothing quite as satisfying as rolling a 20 and critting the dragon for it's last 20 hit points when the party has no healing surges left and everyone is bloodied.

Translate that into whatever edition preference you have. It's ultimately the same thrill. To me, taking away the element of character death at the whim of fate turns the game into little more than a story-book fiction or computer game where you can just go back to your last saved game.

So how about you? Do you fudge for fun or profit?

vagabundo · Mar 1, 2010

I used to fudge a lot in 3e for various reasons, but I don't do it anymore in 4e, the characters are tougher and can take a good deal of punishment. There are fewer glass cannons.

And my attitude has changed a little since then, I'm more focused on the story of the game and the dice are the "

happens" part of my DND world.

UniversalMonster · Mar 1, 2010

I never fudge dice.

I have on occasion, allowed a monster to roll randomly to decide to attack between two or more characters if one of the characters is about to die, and the monster isn't adjacent, or used an at-will over an encounter power, but that's just as much about expediency as anything else (ie, I want to get through the encounter to get to something else before the end of the adventure..)

Another way you can adjust an encounter without fudging is allow monsters to retreat. Just keep in mind that monsters don't usually retreat when they are winning (players can tell you are letting them off easy), but if you have a badly beaten group of monsters and it's down to the last brute or soldier, it doesn't hurt to try and retreat; if anything it's more realistic.

Stormonu · Mar 1, 2010

Rarely; I generally have only done so when a player gets too cocky for his own good, and they have to have really gotten on my nerves.

Chrono22 · Mar 1, 2010

I fudge all the time as a DM. Often in the PCs' favor or to make the circumstances more interesting or rewarding. The objective of play is fun after all... but sometimes seeing a player spend a whole session rolling below 4 really irritates me.

I'm considering implementing a rule to make fudging a part of play- instead of using a dice, each player is provided with a stack of cards, numbered 1-10 (other face blank). Whenever a player character gains "focus" (it can only be gained in circumstances in which a player character is threatened or his concentration is otherwise impeded) he can draw three cards at random from the deck and reveal them. When he makes a check, he can opt to use one of the three revealed cards, or draw a random card for his number result. If a player is dissatisfied with the 3 cards he has drawn, he can opt to refocus (spend 5 seconds) and reshuffle and redraw a number of cards equal to the number he had in his hand. The act of concentrating would allow him to reveal additional cards. If a character expends all the cards so revealed, he would lose focus. (Obviously this isn't the d20 system)
Thoughts?

wedgeski · Mar 1, 2010

I fudge occasionally in the interests of fun, 99% of the time in favour of the PC's. But that's 99% of hardly ever, so in general, no, I don't tend to have the need in my current campaign (4E).

Wormwood · Mar 1, 2010

In the past, I would find myself fudging the occasional roll to either keep things moving or add a little tension.

Now? Never. I (and the other three DMs in our 4e group) roll everything right on the table like everyone else.

Crothian · Mar 1, 2010

Sure, when its needed. There are times I plan out an encounter and it becomes too easy or too hard so I'll fudge to make it more interesting.

Dykstrav · Mar 1, 2010

Rarely.

My DMing style is a bit old-school, so I'm a big proponent of "let the dice fall where they may." As both a player and as a DM, I feel that the DM should be an impartial arbiter of success and failure. A big reason that I play D&D is the sense of challenge--the more challenging, the better. A DM that fudges rolls so that my character can succeed reduces my enjoyment of the game because they remove the penalties for failure, and thus any meaning that my choices may have. If I succeed most of the time, then my character choices matter less. I'd rather stumble through a battle with kobolds by the skin of my teeth than defeat an ancient dragon or a demon lord because the DM fudges rolls for me.

I feel that you demonstrate play skill by being prepared to fail from time to time. Sure, sometimes a characters gets totally screwed and succeeds on an attack once or twice per encounter. There are also times where they all get lucky and manage to bloody elites or solos in the first round. The first situation creates tension and the second delight. Both are extremes and tend to elicit reactions from my players.

On the other hand, I'm also not going to be bossed around by $0.70 of plastic. As the DM, I retain narrative control of the game. When it's clear that the dice haven't given me the most fun result, I'm willing to fudge behind the screen.

UngainlyTitan · Mar 2, 2010

First time I ever played D&D it was the red box BECMI set and I killed the party 4 time at the castle gate with the carrion crawler. On the fifth try I fudged the dice and let them through.
We had a great time and some iconic memories were forge in that dungeon. So I fudge a little over the years my philosophy was that the party should only die if they were being stupid, not through simple bad luck.
Now with 4e I find that I do not fudge at all, in general they have the resources to prevail.
I do some times kill off monsters that have no chance to excape and are down to 10 or less hit points. Only if the party is in no real danger and the monster is clearly not going to win or be able to escape. Espcially if they have been taken down from a good number to near nothing by a critical. It is more dramatic than whittling down the last few hit points.
Of course if the fight is close and there are players teetering on the edge themselves then I would leave the monster standing for that extra round or so.