L4W Discussion Thread V

Voda Vosa · Aug 11, 2011

Awesome. Thanks! Also, I'm assuming Heroes of Shadow, the new essentials book is allowed for making characters?

stonegod · Aug 11, 2011

Voda Vosa said:
Awesome. Thanks! Also, I'm assuming Heroes of Shadow, the new essentials book is allowed for making characters?

it's been out a month at least.

Voda Vosa · Aug 11, 2011

Terrific! Thanks again!

modus666 · Aug 12, 2011

okay.... im a little confused about the approval process. there were two obvious errors which i corrected but i was told that:

"You will need to create a character summary on the wiki page, like the ones you can find on non-spreadsheet characters. It doesn't look like the Character Creation Guide was updated to show this, but the summary makes it much easier for DMs to look over your character and make sure everything's fine. Just to clarify, you don't need to add a Math section, just a summary."

I used the character spreadsheet method, and the character spreadsheet includes a summary for the DM's quick reference, which I filled out as per the instructions on the spreadsheet and the character creation guide. If I did that... why do I have to post it again in the wiki page i created for my character? the link to the character sheet with the summary is right at the top of the wiki page. (frustrated frown)

second. i was told that:

"Powers: You should replace the "+ [Ability] modifier" wording with the final number. Also, no need to say how the power gets better when you level."

Shouldnt this be a realtively MINOR thing to withhold approval for? All of the math is right there on the spreadsheet as it is. All I did was copy/paste directly from the compendium the exact wording of the "on hit" text for the power in question.

I fixed the mechanical errors, no problem, but im hesitating to submit my character for approval again if its going to be rejected for things like that...

would someone mind proofing me again to make sure its not an issue? (link to character page in sig)

[edit... still workign on picking a feat... so thats blank]

stonegod · Aug 12, 2011

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modus666 said:
"You will need to create a character summary on the wiki page, like the ones you can find on non-spreadsheet characters. It doesn't look like the Character Creation Guide was updated to show this, but the summary makes it much easier for DMs to look over your character and make sure everything's fine. Just to clarify, you don't need to add a Math section, just a summary."

1) Because its the rule. 2) Because not everyone has (or wishes) to get a google account. 3) The spreadsheet of for character checking more than for game playing; most DMs have stated it is easier for them to check in only one place than two.

modus666 said:
"Powers: You should replace the "+ [Ability] modifier" wording with the final number. Also, no need to say how the power gets better when you level."

Shouldnt this be a realtively MINOR thing to withhold approval for? All of the math is right there on the spreadsheet as it is. All I did was copy/paste directly from the compendium the exact wording of the "on hit" text for the power in question.

This is not a minor thing and you've spelt out exactly why: Because it is "just a copy from the Compendium". WotC has gone after folks that reprint the Compendium as it is illegal (copyright): They made it clear that posting the calculated result is fine; putting the rules of how to get the calculated result is not. This was especially true when the Wiki was on ENWorld (as we didn't want to get Morrus in trouble); now we just don't want to get in trouble ourselves.

Also, saves the DM (and you) some math time work.

stonegod · Aug 12, 2011

FYI: Here is the thread that discusses the spreadsheet change.

TwoHeadsBarking · Aug 12, 2011

modus666 said:
okay.... im a little confused about the approval process. there were two obvious errors which i corrected but i was told that:

"You will need to create a character summary on the wiki page, like the ones you can find on non-spreadsheet characters. It doesn't look like the Character Creation Guide was updated to show this, but the summary makes it much easier for DMs to look over your character and make sure everything's fine. Just to clarify, you don't need to add a Math section, just a summary."

I used the character spreadsheet method, and the character spreadsheet includes a summary for the DM's quick reference, which I filled out as per the instructions on the spreadsheet and the character creation guide. If I did that... why do I have to post it again in the wiki page i created for my character? the link to the character sheet with the summary is right at the top of the wiki page. (frustrated frown)

The point is that everyone here is used to the wiki summary. The history behind this is that for a while people were allowed to just have spreadsheets. Basically, the person who built the character enjoyed the ease the spreadsheets allowed, but everyone else who had to use the character sheet (judges, DMs) really didn't like it. Personally, I prefer the spreadsheet for building characters, but I find reading the wiki page to be so much easier once the character is already built. You can read more about the decision to stop allowing just the spreadsheet here.

Anyway, Voda Vosa's character Vermitrax is a pretty good example of what your character page should look like.

modus666 said:
second. i was told that:

"Powers: You should replace the "+ [Ability] modifier" wording with the final number. Also, no need to say how the power gets better when you level."

Shouldnt this be a realtively MINOR thing to withhold approval for? All of the math is right there on the spreadsheet as it is. All I did was copy/paste directly from the compendium the exact wording of the "on hit" text for the power in question.

What stonegod said, mostly. Also, that's not why I didn't approve Vayne. The lack of summary and the expertise feat were why I didn't approve her. When I review a character, I make notes of everything out of place that I notice, but I only withhold approval if one of the issues is mechanically important. Not having the right amount of ability points, or using an unapproved background. Things that change the numbers. These are the issues that need to be addressed before approval, but I still tell the player about everything else that popped up.

modus666 said:
I fixed the mechanical errors, no problem, but im hesitating to submit my character for approval again if its going to be rejected for things like that...

would someone mind proofing me again to make sure its not an issue? (link to character page in sig)

Please don't see my comments as a rejection. See them as a critique. You submitted the first draft of your character, and I gave you notes on it. The character approval process is really more like peer review than anything else. Let me know when you've chosen a feat, and I'll take another look at Vayne.

modus666 said:
[edit... still workign on picking a feat... so thats blank]

I recommend Unarmored Agility. Vayne's a little fragile.

edit: Dang, stonegod. You ninja-ed me twice.

modus666 · Aug 12, 2011

ok. thanks twoheads for the slightly more diplomatic response. i was literally in the middle of a long, drawn out, rage filled post regarding "1) its the rules" because that came off to me as unnecessarily snarky and pushed my "indignant" button. good thing i refreshed the page...

if it is actually required to have a summary in your wiki page then somebody seriously needs to update BOTH the character creation guide as well as the text on the spreadsheet original because it is honestly not mentioned anywhere in there.

will fix.

btw... was going with unarmored agility as i read your post hehehe.

stonegod · Aug 13, 2011

TwoHeadsBarking said:
edit: Dang, stonegod. You ninja-ed me twice.

We are legion.

stonegod · Aug 13, 2011

modus666 said:
ok. thanks twoheads for the slightly more diplomatic response. i was literally in the middle of a long, drawn out, rage filled post regarding "1) its the rules" because that came off to me as unnecessarily snarky and pushed my "indignant" button. good thing i refreshed the page...

Snark is my vice, I admit. r1 kills PCs and I snark. Because I love.

FWIW: Unarmored Agility is nice so long as there isn't a leather armor that has a nice bonus for you later. Something to keep in mind (though you can retrain Unarmored Agility later if that is the case).