Detect Evil vs alignment?

0-hr · Oct 11, 2002

A question has arisen on one of the other forums:

Does Detect Evil detect a person with an evil alignment?

The one camp (well, ok the one guy) claims that Detect Evil will only detect creatures with the [Evil] subtype. The other camp (being the rest of the rational world), thinks this is hogwash and anyone with an evil alignment will be found.

So what do you think (not that I'm biased): is an evil creature an Evil Creature, or are only [Evil] creatures Evil Creatures?

jasper · Oct 11, 2002

yes but most evil people will only have a faint trace
Evil creature hd /5
So chart 1 or less faint

hammymchamham · Oct 11, 2002

I'd say its if their is alignment is Evil

From the Spell description

Creature/Object Evil Power
--------------- ----------
Evil creature HD / 5
Undead creature HD / 2
Evil elemental HD / 2
Evil magic item
or spell Caster level / 2
Evil outsider HD
Cleric of an
evil deity Level

A cleric of an evil deity most likely does not have the sub type [Evil] but most likely has the alignment of Evil. Its interesting that a Netural Cleric of an evil deity will show up as Evil to a Detect Evil radar.

In addition

Remember that animals ... are not evil

Animals are Netural. So it finds their alignment.

In addition, Dectect Evil will find "stuff" with the Evil subtype.

So this spell will find both those with Alignment: Evil and Subtype Evil

Tewligan · Oct 13, 2002

I don't have someone show up under a detect evil spell just because they have an evil alignment. They have to be EVIL evil to show up - an evil outsider, cleric or very devout worshipper of an evil god, regularly/recently committing some heinous crime, etc. The average neutral evil thief whose main goal is to look out for number one just isn't bad enough to register. Makes things a little less black and white, in my opinion. Plus, it makes the players figure things out through roleplaying and deduction, rather than relying on a detect evil spell or a paladin to screen every NPC they meet.

Crothian · Oct 13, 2002

As Evil is an absolute and easily defined in D&D I would say yes, detect evil will detect anything, even people, with an an evil alignment.

the Jester · Oct 13, 2002

Hm, I suspect this argument is a holdover from previous editions, when detect evil didn't actually always detect evil. Nowadays, with the list given in the spell description (quoted above), I think the intent is clear: it detects evil. Evil creatures are those with an evil alignment; evil clerics don't have the [Evil] descriptor (or if they do, I'd like someone to point out where it says that in the core rules) and they radiate more evil than a standard evil creature. Most creatures with the [Evil] descriptor are outsiders (or occasionally elementals) and they radiate stronger evil than a "typical" evil creature; if the "typical" (non-descriptored) evil creature doesn't radiate evil, then why is it listed (HD/5)?

Dash Dannigan · Oct 13, 2002

Hmmm, how would a Neutral Tiefling read under detect evil then? Outsider blood [Evil], but a non-evil alignment.

How would a Chaotic Good Tiefling register?

Tonguez · Oct 13, 2002

Okay I'm the One Guy who say it only detects Creatures with Evil Subtype and not Evil alignments and I'll post the same argument here that I posted in the other thread (with some adjustments to address things raised here.

But first some reposnses to this thread

hammymchamham said:
A cleric of an evil deity most likely does not have the sub type [Evil] but most likely has the alignment of Evil. Its interesting that a Netural Cleric of an evil deity will show up as Evil to a Detect Evil radar.

I think this is perfect support for my argument rather than against it. If the Spell detected alignment then why would Clerics of Evil Gods need to be specified since most will have evil alignments anyway?
And yes a Neutral Cleric will be detected by the Spell because of their association with the Evil God - its the association with the Evil God thats important NOT their alignment

Originally posted by the Jester
Evil creatures are those with an evil alignment.

The Spell clearly says it detects 'Evil Creatures' NOT Creatures with Evil Alignments

If you were asked to find an Aquatic Creature (like Sahuagin) then you would look for the Aquatic Subtype Descriptor, if you were asked to find a Fire Creature you would look for the Fire Descriptor ergo if you are looking for an Evil Creature then surely you look for the Evil Descriptor. I think Dash Dannigan brings up a good point with Teiflings too and imho a Neutral Tiefling with Evil Descriptor detects as Evil despite their alignment.

Okay My Argument from the Other Thread
Just because only Outsiders have been given an Evil Subtype doesn't mean they are the only ones who can have it.
It would be quite easy to say (for instance) that the Eye of Fear and Flame is an Undead with Evil Subtype or that the Bog Giant is a Evil Giant or theat the Hell Hound is an Evil Magical Beast (iirc there are Evil Elementals too)

Now an Aquatic Creature is a Creature with the Aquatic Subtype, a Fire Creature is one with the Fire Subtype ergo a Evil Creature must be one with the Evil Subtype

Afterall a Wizard who can cast fireball is not a Magical Fire Creature so why should his CE alignment make him an Evil Creature?...

Mustrum_Ridcully · Oct 13, 2002

The cleric of an evil diety must be mentioned specifically, because the strength of his evil aura is not a fifth of his HD, but his level!

Mustrum Ridcully

hong · Oct 13, 2002

Tonguez said:
I think this is perfect support for my argument rather than against it. If the Spell detected alignment then why would Clerics of Evil Gods need to be specified since most will have evil alignments anyway?

Because you can be a non-evil cleric of an evil god.

And yes a Neutral Cleric will be detected by the Spell because of their association with the Evil God - its the association with the Evil God thats important NOT their alignment

For that specific application of the spell.

The Spell clearly says it detects 'Evil Creatures' NOT Creatures with Evil Alignments

Why is a creature with an evil alignment not an evil creature?

If you were asked to find an Aquatic Creature (like Sahuagin) then you would look for the Aquatic Subtype Descriptor, if you were asked to find a Fire Creature you would look for the Fire Descriptor ergo if you are looking for an Evil Creature then surely you look for the Evil Descriptor.

Unfortunately, there are no "detect aquatic" or "detect fire" spells, so this argument is moot.

I think Dash Dannigan brings up a good point with Teiflings too and imho a Neutral Tiefling with Evil Descriptor detects as Evil despite their alignment.

Wouldn't they just be misunderstood?