Proposal: Replace Expertise Related House Rule with Feat Slot

Farce · Mar 19, 2010

Yeah, I think we're ok. Having +1 to hit wouldn't help poor Vardaal as he rolls 1's and 2's on invisible castle. I kinda like it how it is, but if you want to change it, my preference is the one the Velmont said

Free feat at level 5 (human will still get their advantage)
Expertise-style feat accessible at level 5 and more. (~~Could be 1 as RAW,~~ but I favor 5 <- this)

Also bob you mention that if everyone got 5 feats the human gets 6. This is true, but then you get into the law of diminshing returns. Are there really 6 feats available at first level that you'd trade a +2 in your secondary score + a cool racial ability for?

evilbob · Mar 19, 2010

covaithe said:
Right now, every PC in L4W, with a small handful of exceptions who have reached level 5, has that "-1 to hit".

Yup. That doesn't mean I wouldn't trade my current feat immediately for a +1 to hit. That doesn't mean we're all not effectively at -1.

covaithe said:
We seem to be doing okay. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that most L4W PCs are well ahead of WotC's expected power curve, despite not being allowed +1 from expertise.

I think someone else already said this, but I suspect the +3 to point buy has a little something to do with this.

Farce said:
Are there really 6 feats available at first level that you'd trade a +2 in your secondary score + a cool racial ability for?

Yup. And if there aren't yet, just wait a few more months for yet another splat book to come out and give you even more options. But even ignoring the extreme: there are definitely 3 feats as opposed to 2.

Don't get me wrong, guys: this isn't a crisis or anything and I am still happy to be playing even with "an effective -1".

But I think I've made my position about as clear as I can: I most prefer the "Option C" I gave before for the reasons I already stated. I understand that I'm probably on the fringe of people who strongly, STRONGLY dislike the expertise feats and so my solution probably doesn't appeal to everyone.

Nebten · Mar 19, 2010

I prefer keeping things as RAW as possible and doing away with extra feats or hit bonuses at certian levels, etc. Let's just keep it simple for everybody's sake. The more house rules placed, the more complicated it gets and less attractive to new players. To play this game, I would just like to have the rules in MY books and run with it. Anything else is going to take away from some and add to others. I have no problems completely removing certain parts or allowing others as a whole. But it should be as written not fine tuned.

We should just play this system as is, warts and all.

Kalidrev · Mar 19, 2010

I am changing my vote to be in line with cov's chart (to be more explicit):

I vote YES to number 5: Unrestricted feat at 5th level, Expertise feats allowed at 1.

I am ALSO voting YES to number 6: Unrestricted feat at 5th level, Expertise feats not allowed until 5th.

I vote NO to all of the other options in cov's chart (especially number 1, lol, that's ignoring the feat tax all together!

)

I think both of these options are good, and would be okay with either.

renau1g · Mar 19, 2010

My vote is below. (Thanks Kal for the format

)

I am voting YES to number 10: Expertise feat at 5th level, Expertise feats not allowed until 5th.

I vote NO to all of the other options in cov's chart

Ozymandias79 · Mar 19, 2010

my vote is:

YES to number 10 in cov's chart , and NO to all of the other options in cov's chart

renau1g · Mar 19, 2010

Oh, missed #10. I changed to vote yes on that one.

Oni · Mar 20, 2010

Personally I prefer extra feat slot at first level. It's simple, which is big in my opinion.

Some people will take an expertise feat right away, some won't. I know I certainly have the urge to optimize at times, but frankly I wouldn't take it right away for every character, sometimes getting a character to operate in a certain way mechanically speaking is preferable to numerical superiority. I don't really think it becomes overly noticeable or necessary until it hits +2 anyway.

garyh · Mar 20, 2010

Yes to options 5, 6, and 10.

No to the other options.

renau1g · Mar 20, 2010

So to summarize:

Option 5 - 2 yes (gary & Kal), 2 no (renau1g & Ozy)
Option 6 - 3 yes (gary, Kal, renau1g), 1 no (Ozy)
Option 10 - 3 yes (gary, renau1g, Ozy), 1 no (Kal)

These options are the only ones that can now be voted on as the other 7 received 3 or more no votes (incl leave it as it is). Right now both 6 & 10 have both received the number of votes to pass (3 yes votes). If nothing changes, I think we'd got with the one that passed by the wider margin?

Proposal: Replace Expertise Related House Rule with Feat Slot

Farce

First Post

evilbob

Explorer

Nebten

First Post

Kalidrev

First Post

renau1g

First Post

Ozymandias79

First Post

renau1g

First Post

Oni

First Post

garyh

First Post

renau1g

First Post

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