Vote for your favorite Paragon Path - Part 16: Shaman

Which is your favorite Shaman Paragon Path?

  • Disciple of the World Serpent (PHB2)

    Votes: 2 11.1%
  • Disciple of Winds (PP)

    Votes: 1 5.6%
  • Everflame Guardian (PP)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ghost Panther (PHB2)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Great Bear Shaman (PHB2)

    Votes: 1 5.6%
  • Great Elder (PP)

    Votes: 1 5.6%
  • Keen Eagle (PP)

    Votes: 1 5.6%
  • Scarred Healer (PP)

    Votes: 2 11.1%
  • Seasons' Herald (PP)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Shyran Spiritblade (Dr 379)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Spirit Tempest (PHB2)

    Votes: 3 16.7%
  • Warrior of Spring (PP)

    Votes: 1 5.6%
  • I'm out of touch with the spirits.

    Votes: 6 33.3%

  • Poll closed .

mkill

Adventurer
"My name is William Shatner, and I am a shaman." Now, I don't know which paragon path William Shatner would choose, and unless he has an account at EN World, we'll never know. So I ask you instead. Which is your favorite Shaman paragon path? The winner will be summoned to the champions round.

Other polls:
Cleric - Fighter - Paladin - Ranger - Rogue - Warlock - Warlord - Wizard - Swordmage - Forgotten Realms - Avenger - Barbarian - Bard - Druid - Invoker - Shaman - Sorcerer - Warden - Eberron - Artificer -
 
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fba827

Adventurer
although invokers and shamans are some of my personal favorite classes, you'll find that those two classes are usually the first to go in any 'vote for your favorite class polls' done here on enworld.
 

yesnomu

First Post
Playing a Spirit Tempest now. Healing Guides makes the party just stupidly survivable--if I choose to use one of my several extra conjuration or zone powers, I can usually grant the entire party bonus healing. For several fights, we've been able to get away with the invoker and the ranger not needing to spend surges at all, which is fantastic.

The encounter is a bit Reserve Maneuver-bait, but with the new errata, Spirit Flow is essentially, "Minor action: put an ally where you want." It's pretty handy.

EDIT: Yeah, nobody online likes Shamans. Which is funny, since my DM is convinced they're partially broken... I have a lot of fun with mine.
 

mkill

Adventurer
[...] my DM is convinced they're partially broken...

What is it about DMs and declaring stuff broken? Did he give a reason or is it one of those DM gut reactions?
I DMed for a 10th level shaman and I found nothing broken about the class. He hands out bonuses and heals people, just like any other leader. If anything, I found the at-wills underwhelming, compared to the stuff the cleric and the warlord get.
 

yesnomu

First Post
Did he give a reason or is it one of those DM gut reactions?
Things he considers overpowered/broken:

  • High damage threshold for the spirit, combined with no effect if it's not met.
  • Spirit OA grants free healing as an effect--since I'm tricked out for healing, it heals a lot. My DM dislikes provoking this even less than the fighter's OA/Combat Challenge.
  • By RAW, the spirit floats in the air, so you can stick it next to a flying enemy without hover and get free OAs on it. This got houseruled pretty quick, now he makes it stay on the ground.
  • Long-range melee presence with instant repositioning ability, and few or none of the risks of actually being in melee.
Essentially, he dislikes the effects of the class having such a mobile, potent conjuration 24/7.
 

mkill

Adventurer
Things he considers overpowered/broken:

  • High damage threshold for the spirit, combined with no effect if it's not met.
  • Spirit OA grants free healing as an effect--since I'm tricked out for healing, it heals a lot. My DM dislikes provoking this even less than the fighter's OA/Combat Challenge.
  • By RAW, the spirit floats in the air, so you can stick it next to a flying enemy without hover and get free OAs on it. This got houseruled pretty quick, now he makes it stay on the ground.
  • Long-range melee presence with instant repositioning ability, and few or none of the risks of actually being in melee.
Essentially, he dislikes the effects of the class having such a mobile, potent conjuration 24/7.

Ah well. One of those "don't give the PCs swords they might hurt someone" arguments.

The damage threshold is necessary, because the Shaman himself has a pretty low defenses, which also makes the spirit easy to hit. If the damage threshold was lower, we'd see a lot of dead shamans. My monsters would usually try to attack the spirit once or twice, but when they see it's pointless they'd go for something else. Most monsters aren't stupid.

The spirit OA didn't trigger even once in my campaign, so that was a non-issue.

Floating spirit is also a non-issue, especially at higher levels when all PCs have some kind of flight ability.

As for the long range, well, other leaders have ranged attacks, which is even better. Ranged attacks don't eat up minor actions to set up. And being in melee backfired once, when the spirit got caught and killed in a friendly-fire area attack.

All in all, the spirit has some advantages, and some disadvantages over how other leaders work. It probably surprised your DM with a few unexpected events, but that doesn't mean it's broken. PCs pull unexpected stunts all the time. In the worst case, that means they kill your monsters and win the fight (but weren't they expected to do that in the first place?)
 

yesnomu

First Post
The spirit can't be targeted by area attacks at all (nor close), which on retrospect is another thing he doesn't like. (It's important to avoid Shamans and their spirits being targeted by one attack, though.)

Also, with Sudden Call and the new errata, it's a free action to put the spirit wherever you want on your turn. Positioning is now dead easy by RAW (though he houseruled this one as well, I only get one free reposition per turn).

Honestly, I don't think the spirit melee attacks have a downside. They're longer range than any attack in the game save bows, and while enemies can attack the spirit, they'll usually fail. So either they attack it and most likely waste their turn, or they move away and provoke, or they shift and move and limit their movement. Either way is functionally a win for you.

If all else fails, they can be identical to ranged attacks: summon the spirit away, make the attack, summon it back near you. Another point in their favor once you can summon freely.

Anyway, I don't think they're broken either, but I won't argue with my GM that the spirit's a unique and powerful class feature--and also complex and easy to make mistakes with. I don't begrudge him his problems with the class, even if I disagree with their severity.
 


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