Improving the Monk

StreamOfTheSky · Mar 23, 2010

Dannyalcatraz said:
Again, its a matter of whom you're gaming with. The guys who've tried this tweak out haven't been powergaming, they've been modeling their favorite martial artists.

It's not like the people I usually game with are jerks, either. But when I'm designing classes, I try to take such things into account. I don't mind doing class skill swaps, weapon proficiency changes, even what base save is your good save on a case by case basis. But I don't write any of that down as the rules. Ideally, the rules are carefully balanced so that no major abuse can occur, whether people would try to do that or not.

Dannyalcatraz · Mar 24, 2010

I slept on the dipping issue...and I'm not sure how big of an issue it is.

Most PCs who are going to be interested in weapon proficiencies are the martial ones- IOW, classes w/full BAB, etc. I'm not sure how many power gamers would give up a BAB progression, HP and certain other benefits in order to gain an XWP (or 2) and some low-level Monk abilities, most of which won't apply when wearing armor.

I'm not saying it won't happen, but it seems to be a bit of a wash to me.

Dannyalcatraz · Mar 10, 2011

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Dandu · Mar 10, 2011

Shocking.

Icyshadowlord · Mar 10, 2011

@OP: Just out of curiosity, do you plan to make a version of Paladin that uses stances and maneuvers as well? I just found the prospect of a Paladin with similar abilities to the Monk and Figther you had given out to be interesting, since I have gained a fondness for the Tome of Battle material as of late.

Second reason would be because I plan to play a Paladin once my DM gets the game running (and finds two more players), but that is not as important as the reasons stated earlier XD

kitcik · Mar 10, 2011

I am playing a 3.5 monk right now. I really like your changes & they would make the monk more appealing. I'm already planning to mutliclass to a ToB class at some point, but having some stances would be fantasic.

I would say drop shadow hand for sure and maybe setting sun.

On the other hand, the proficiency thing is s good point. Maybe, as part of greater flurry, when they improve from -2 to -1 and again when they improve from -1 to 0, they can choose one light weapon (any kind - simple, martial or exotic) that they can use as a special monk weapon. Kusari-gama flurry with combat reflexes and improved trip would be cool.

On a totally separate note, one way to improve underpowered classes other than homebrewing the whole thing is to give them easier LA buyoffs. Basically, allow the underpowered class to buy off racial LA's for free at 7th and 14th level as long as they do not multiclass. After 14th, they will have the benefits of a superior (LA +2) race without being behind in level. At that point, they can multiclass as they choose.

kitcik · Mar 10, 2011

Also, think about this.

You gave the monk:
- stances
- normal monk abilities
- an effective increase in hitpoints
- extra attacks in non-full-attack scenarios

Compare this to a warblade with
- stances
- maneuvers, including raging mongoose (ToB page 89 - read it if you are not familiar), which can be reset with a swift action
- warblade abilities
- d12 hit points

I am still going to have to say the warblade is stronger, although you certainly caught the monk up considerably.

marcielle · Mar 12, 2011

The problem with the monk is that he sucks IN CORE. If you have access to all the supplementals( but particularly Oriental adventures and Sword and fist) then you really dont need to go much further than the martial stances. And perhaps a replacement to Purity of body. That feat has NO conceivable use. Rushing torrent sounds all sorts of awesome though.

For example, one of my favourite things to do as a monk is Sandal's of Tiger's leap + flying kick feat = 4x damage on charge. Also, Improved natural attack feat and a Mighty wallop spell (even 1st level) from your friendly wizard will make you do more damage than a raging Barbarian without after effects. All this is achieveable by ECL 5 btw.

Sure the monk will never be the strongest frontline fighter, but I never though he was MEANT to be. He has moderate flexibility in combat and speed on his side if built right. I always felt he was meant to be a support meeleer, flanking and annoying mobs like nobodies business and rushing to the aid of squishies who were caught off guard.

Also, keep tounge of Sun and Moon no matter what anyone says. Nothing beats being able to insult ANYTHING with the ability to speak in it's own language.

Dandu · Mar 12, 2011

I think the Flying Kick feat only adds 1d12 to damage on a charge in 3.5e; presumably, they changed it in the transition.

kitcik · Mar 14, 2011

Also, per D&D mat, x2 x2 = x3 not x4.

Monks suck with supplemental books too - the supplements help the other classes at least as much (if not more) than the monk.