What is OSR about?

Desdichado · Mar 26, 2010

The Shaman said:
That fits my recollection of events as well, Ourph: the beginnings of the OSR were firmly in place before EGG's passing and well before 4e was announced.

No doubt; the roots of the OSR easily stretch back to the founding of the Dragonsfoot forums and the excitement over Necromancer's intent to intentionally promote an "old school" feel in their products. At least. I don't really know what was going on online in D&Diana before the release of 3e, but I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a nascent OSR vibe there too.

But the roots of something and then that something itself are two different things. I don't think you can talk about the OSR itself until you get to the retroclones and the blog explosion. Otherwise, it's not the OSR, it's just some OS activity that eventually became the OSR.

billd91 · Mar 26, 2010

estar said:
It is however largely focused on D&D, so the emerging communities around the revivals of Traveller, and Runequest are distinct from what most consider to be the OSR. Traveller and Runequest are certainly old school.

If that's what "most" consider, I would consider that "most" to be mistaken. D&D, as usual, gets the attention because it's the biggest game around, the widest known, and the widest played. If it tends to dominate old school discussions, that makes sense because it was the game most played in the old school days as well as now.

TerraDave · Mar 26, 2010

Reynard said:
I think 4E was the galvanizing foprce behind the so called OSR. While 3E did in fact get a lot of knickers in twists, 4E was a fundamental paradigm shift as opposed to 3E's "evolutionary step". I'm not making a judgement call one way or the other, just saying that because it -- mechanically, fluff wise and in assumed playstyle -- those that were on the fence and leaning toward "old school" D&D jumped right over and cried havok.

Also, I agree with above assertion that Gary Gygax's death had a lot to do with it. I have always loved AD&D, but when EGG died I actually re-read every book, evwery magazine article, every adventure by him that I own or have access to and that cemented a lot of my "old school" attitude.

As others have also noted, pre 4E you already had

-People who had kept playing pre 1990 D&D (and hence the 2E roots of the movement)

-People disatisfied with 3E

-Some retro-clones, and, crucially, the idea of doing new stuff for old games.

But ya, all these blogs and the whole thing really started to take off around the anouncment of 4E, which was both a further break with the past and came with a bunch of criticism of 3E.

Of course, threads like this make me wonder, has the OSR peaked?

Reynard · Mar 26, 2010

TerraDave said:
As others have also noted, pre 4E you already had

-People who had kept playing pre 1990 D&D (and hence the 2E roots of the movement)

-People disatisfied with 3E

-Some retro-clones, and, crucially, the idea of doing new stuff for old games.

But ya, all these blogs and the whole thing really started to take off around the anouncment of 4E, which was both a further break with the past and came with a bunch of criticism of 3E.

That's what i meant by "galvanized". Obviously, there's been some sort of "old school movement" since the first OD&D supplement, but I think the confluence of 4E, Gary's death and a lot of PDF publishers with the d20 license about to be pulled all helped turn the nascent OSR into a micro-fad.

Of course, threads like this make me wonder, has the OSR peaked?

You may be right., but that's okay. As long as there's always a Dragonsfoot and other like sites, where people can share their Old School love, I'll be okay with that.

Grimstaff · Mar 26, 2010

The OSR's main objective is to generate queries as to what the OSR is.

The Shaman · Mar 26, 2010

Hobo said:
I don't think you can talk about the OSR itself until you get to the retroclones and the blog explosion.

And that's exactly what I was talking about, Hobo: I remember a number of the online discussions that preceded OSRIC and the release of first retro-clones, which I took as the beginning of the OSR.

I recall seeing discussions about publishing new material for older editions of D&D around 2005 - not just releasing free stuff by .pdf on fansites, but adventures that could legally be distributed and sold in gaming stores - and not just on Dragonsfoot, but here and Big Purple; that's significant to me in that both of the latter sites were very 3e-centric in their D&D discussions at that time, so the conversations stood out.

So I don't know where you get the idea that I, or anyone else, was conflating persisting interest in older games with as what has come to be called the OSR.

Umbran · Mar 26, 2010

The Shaman said:
And that's exactly what I was talking about, Hobo: I remember a number of the online discussions that preceded OSRIC and the release of first retro-clones, which I took as the beginning of the OSR.

I think Hobo's point is that the beginnings of a thing shouldn't be conflated with the thing itself. There was some old school action back then, that is not to be denied. However, it looks like he's saying it wasn't the Old School Revival (as a proper name, with capital letters) until later. So, perhaps he'd call that activity farther back the seeds of the OSR, differentiating it from the current growth.

I think there's some value to that - it perhaps shouldn't be considered a Named Thing until the point where it reaches a certain level of fervency and activity. You may, of course, differ on what you think that level should be.

Bullgrit · Mar 27, 2010

Grimstaff said:
The OSR's main objective is to generate queries as to what the OSR is.

"The first rule of OSR is talk about OSR."

Bullgrit

The Shaman · Mar 27, 2010

Umbran said:
I think there's some value to that - it perhaps shouldn't be considered a Named Thing until the point where it reaches a certain level of fervency and activity.

As someone who watched this take shape over many years, I would say that it was what it was before someone thought to slap a label on it.

Steel_Wind · Mar 27, 2010

So what is OSR about?

Nostalgia. TIA.

What is OSR about?

Desdichado

Hero

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)

TerraDave

5ever, or until 2024

Reynard

Legend

Grimstaff

Explorer

The Shaman

First Post

Umbran

Mod Squad

Bullgrit

Adventurer

The Shaman

First Post

Steel_Wind

Legend

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