Ready action gamebreaking situations

Hi there.

I am a Dnd 3.5 (now pathfinder) DM with a few years of experience.
Recently, i had a PC try to use a readied action in strange manners, so i made some tests and found out many ways a 1v1 encounter can be broken using initiative.

Note this i know there many "munchkiny" methods for doing this, but i'm talking about really simple fights, nothing complicated or powergame-y
I found similar threads but they were based on large creatures with longspear, or partial charges, while i want to go more basic here.

Ok, so we have fighter A and fighter B, both armed with longswords, humans, and there a 20 ft space between them.

A wins initiative so goes first. He readies an action: "attack B and take a 5ft step away" with trigger "as soon as he tries to attack me". Pretty standard

B charges (or moves towards) A, begins his attack.
A interrupts B, makes his attack and makes a step away and end his turn.
B continues, but cannot attack A because he is out of range, and has already begun his attack action, which is effectively wasted.

Next turn, they are adjacent
A can ready "i attack and 5ft step away" with trigger "he starts to attack me". Once B starts to attack, A is no longer in range, and B has already declared he was attacking.

There are many other situations involved (ready to run away when attacked, ready to 5ft step and attack spellcaster, etc) but i think solving this one will solve them all.

How would you deal with this situation?
Frankly, the best way i can see is to rule that the attacks are "concurrent" so both get the attacks, but this would complicate things even more "i ready, i attack, then you attack, then i continue with my readied 5ft step and then you continue"

B steps forward 5' and readies an action, "I attack him when he attacks me".

"B charges (or moves towards) A, begins his attack.
A interrupts B, makes his attack and makes a step away and end his turn.
B continues, but cannot attack A because he is out of range, and has already begun his attack action, which is effectively wasted."



if we have the same reach and i can touch you that means you can touch me. I say both attacks land and fighter A 5ft steps away after, you can't be in range to hit and out of range for your opponents hit at the same time in melee without a reach weapon.

Yeah, OP. Your trick only works if B has a greater reach, otherwise I don't see how a 5 ft step is enough to ruin A's attack. Even if it were...just don't charge. Have A take a normal move action towards B. B interrupts, does his little attack and step, then (since he interrupted A's action and thus it is still the move action) move towards B again. The movement you make with your move action can be whatever disjointefdly zig-zaggy pattern you want. So, finish the move next to A, and use your attack action.

Not sure of that many truly abusive ready action tricks.
Readying to attack a caster if you started off in melee insteado f attacking right away might be useful. Because then you can 5 ft step if he tries ot do that ot back off, and disrupt his spell.
Readying so as to cast Mass Energy Resistance (whatever energy type the dragon uses) to interrupt a dragon's breath weapon attack is often a good trade action-wise. Why ready? I'm assuming a non-core game, where the dragon can change the energy type of his breath weapon, and you can't just go by color coding.
I also find it handy sometimes if I win initiative in a duel to ready a move action to move away from the opponent as he moves towards me, such that I keep 5 ft out of reach. Then, by readying rules, my initiative count is set to occur just before his. His attack action is likely wasted, especially if it was a charge. My turn! 5 ft step in and full attack. (This is in cases of foes with equal reach, of course)

None of those are very overpowered. Just good.

Nimloth said:

B steps forward 5' and readies an action, "I attack him when he attacks me".

Click to expand...

I am assuming you are referring to when they are adjacent (since the first time B gets to do anything, he is adjacent to A).

B cannot ready this action because A is adjacent, so no step forward.

StreamOfTheSky said:

I also find it handy sometimes if I win initiative in a duel to ready a move action to move away from the opponent as he moves towards me, such that I keep 5 ft out of reach. Then, by readying rules, my initiative count is set to occur just before his. His attack action is likely wasted, especially if it was a charge. My turn! 5 ft step in and full attack. (This is in cases of foes with equal reach, of course)

Click to expand...

This is ok, not gamebreaking. However, you could do better by readying against his "attack" not against his "move", so that by the time he attacks, you interrupt and step away, and get a free extra attack while he gets none. And this, since it can be done each turn, IS gamebreaking.

And the thing is, by RAW, you can do this. My players dont like when i "improvise", so i'd like a clear new rule to solve this problem, which is even worse then dealing with reach.

So far, BENINHB's solution seems the best one.

Madeiner said:

This is ok, not gamebreaking. However, you could do better by readying against his "attack" not against his "move", so that by the time he attacks, you interrupt and step away, and get a free extra attack while he gets none. And this, since it can be done each turn, IS gamebreaking.

And the thing is, by RAW, you can do this. My players dont like when i "improvise", so i'd like a clear new rule to solve this problem, which is even worse then dealing with reach.

So far, BENINHB's solution seems the best one.

Click to expand...

Yes, it works just as well if you ready against the attack itself. I don't see it as game breaking, though. You can keep yourself from being attacked if you persist in doing the trick (of course, the other guy will catch on and possibly try other tactics, like throwing clubs at you), but then you're also not hurting him. You're basically just running around like a little...witch... doing everything you can to avoid the fight.

If you use the tactic as I laid it out, you're trading the benefit of striking first since you won initative (and being subjected to a full attack if you don't drop the foe) to striking first and getting to make a full attack in the process. Defenitely a better deal ,which is why i labeled it a good tactic. But outside of a 1 on 1 duel, you're still delaying your turn which isn't so great when there's several other people on each side now acting before you potentially. And this is all assuming someone does try to approach you for melee. If they hang back and shoot ranged weapons or whatever, you completely wasted your turn.
So it's situationally very strong, but even then, not game breaking.

StreamOfTheSky said:

You can keep yourself from being attacked if you persist in doing the trick (of course, the other guy will catch on and possibly try other tactics, like throwing clubs at you), but then you're also not hurting him.

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The thing is, this is perfectly fine. It's when you ready to "attack and move 5ft", instead of only moving away, that things go bad.
There's nothing in the rules preventing to attack in response to his attack (and you go first, because you readied) and then stepping away, effectively negating the other an opportunity to strike.

Madeiner said:

I am assuming you are referring to when they are adjacent (since the first time B gets to do anything, he is adjacent to A).

B cannot ready this action because A is adjacent, so no step forward.

Click to expand...

A wins initiative so goes first. He readies an action: "attack B and take a 5ft step away" with trigger "as soon as he tries to attack me". Pretty standard

B charges (or moves towards) A, begins his attack.
A interrupts B, makes his attack and makes a step away and end his turn.
B continues, but cannot attack A because he is out of range, and has already begun his attack action, which is effectively wasted.

A readies an action: "attack B and take a 5ft step away" with trigger "as soon as he tries to attack me".

Now; B steps forward 5' and readies an action, "I attack him when he attacks me".

Really, this is the sort of thing that's gamebreaking now?