Ready action gamebreaking situations

BENINHB · Mar 28, 2010

Ok this is off the top of my head but when i charge i usually declare the creature i am charging not the square I am attacking. For example, I charge fighter A, not I charge square G17.

So if i have remaining movement and I can still hit fighter A while moving in a straight line I would allow fighter B to finish his charge.

A round is a 6 second span of time with multiple things happening concurrently, it is only sequentially that they are resolved

irdeggman · Mar 28, 2010

BENINHB said:
Ok this is off the top of my head but when i charge i usually declare the creature i am charging not the square I am attacking. For example, I charge fighter A, not I charge square G17.

That is because of the charging rules.

From the Rules Compendium (pg 27)

To charge, you must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and can move up to double your speed. You must be able to reach the closest space from which you can attack the designated opponent. This movement must occur before your attack. If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, is difficult terrain, or cntains a creature (not a helpless one), you can't charge. You can't charge if the ending space is occupied or blocked. Since you move to charge, you can't take a 5-fott step during the same turn. You provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for your movement.

The picture on the bottom of the page also contains additional information like:

When charging, a character or creature moves up to double speed (and at least 2 squares or 10 feet) along the shortest path to the closest space from which it can attack an enemy. If any line drawn between the character's starting space and the ending space passes through a square that slows or prevents movement, or contains an ally, the charge is not allowed.

. . .The character can't charge if it doesn't have line of sight to the enemy.

Basically all you have to do is state you are charging an opponent, the rest is determined by circumstances - it must be a straight line (barring modification by feats, class or racial abilities) and it must end at the point where you can first attack the target.

StreamOfTheSky · Mar 28, 2010

irdeggman said:
Basically all you have to do is state you are charging an opponent, the rest is determined by circumstances - it must be a straight line (barring modification by feats, class or racial abilities) and it must end at the point where you can first attack the target.

Well, I think it's perfectly fair that if the person you're charging moves during the charge (like with a readied action) such that the square which is the nearest straight line route to the target changes, to allow the charger to continue on in his straight line path (up to his movement limit) if he can still reach melee with the target. Barring being addressed in the RC, this is never explictly spelled out in the rules, but seems perfectly reasonable and within intent to me (thus why I keep saying why I don't see how a 5ft step alone is enough to use the attack and step "abuse" if you have the same reach generally).

irdeggman · Mar 28, 2010

StreamOfTheSky said:
Well, I think it's perfectly fair that if the person you're charging moves during the charge (like with a readied action) such that the square which is the nearest straight line route to the target changes, to allow the charger to continue on in his straight line path (up to his movement limit) if he can still reach melee with the target. Barring being addressed in the RC, this is never explictly spelled out in the rules, but seems perfectly reasonable and within intent to me (thus why I keep saying why I don't see how a 5ft step alone is enough to use the attack and step "abuse" if you have the same reach generally).

I agree and other rules that allow changing or specifying details, like while making a full attack you can attack anyone you threaten with any of your attacks, or how you don't have to declare what the specifics of the spell you are using are until you actually cast it - would lend credence to such an interpretation. That is merely declaring the action is not all inclusive of what happens.

azhrei_fje · Apr 1, 2010

Dandu said:
Really, this is the sort of thing that's gamebreaking now?

What makes it game breaking is that the GM forgot to tell the player, "You can't ready both a standard action AND a 5-foot step."

Silly GM.

Dandu · Apr 1, 2010

azhrei_fje said:
What makes it game breaking is that the GM forgot to tell the player, "You can't ready both a standard action AND a 5-foot step."

Silly GM.

I don't think so, Tim.

Readying an Action

You can ready a standard action, a move action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, any time before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character’s activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action.
You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don’t otherwise move any distance during the round.

You can take a 5 ft step as part of the readied action.

What prevents it from being gamebreaking is that the enemy continues his actions unless your readied action stops him from doing so, and just attacking someone doesn't necessarily satisfy that condition.

StreamOfTheSky · Apr 1, 2010

azhrei_fje said:
What makes it game breaking is that the GM forgot to tell the player, "You can't ready both a standard action AND a 5-foot step."

Silly GM.

Read the thread, please. That IS allowed.

Special Initiative Actions :: d20srd.org

"You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don’t otherwise move any distance during the round."

EDIT: Bah, Dandu Ninja'd me.

Festivus · May 3, 2010

I would probably let this work once for the player, then the next round (depending how smart B is), instead of an attack I might have B go for a different target, or ready an attack himself, or ranged attack if possible.

Since grapple, trip, etc are all considered "Special Attacks" I'd bet you would get an argument from the player in question that it was an attack (rightly so). So yeah, round 2 I'd ready a trip when A gets in range and then let them try that trick.

A "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice..." sort of attitude. And if you have intelligent creatures, perhaps word would start to spread of A's tactics and they would know prepare for it with focussed range fire and deal with it that way while the skirmishers sweep to the rear to take out the divine/arcane guys.

radira · Oct 25, 2015

I know i am late for the party for like 5 years but i am replying for future reference, for people like me, who stumbled into this thread and wonders the answer for this situation.

quote from d20srd & d20pfsrd : You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round.
emphasis mine.

So, you can't take a 5-foot during a charge but lets say fighter B moves adjacent to A, then takes a total defence std. action. A, thinking nasty again, readies the same attack and retreat, std. + misc. action :devil:

, but clever B has another thing in mind

, B starts a Full-round attack action, A interrupts and attacks, then retreats a step away, "not so quickly!" says B and simply takes a 5-foot misc. action during her attack and continues hitting A.
End of story, RAW as far as i know.

Sorry for necroing this just couldn't resist the urge.

Edited for typos & further clarification.

Bleys Icefalcon · Oct 28, 2015

While understanding how to adjudicate what is written is very important, I believe, personally, there is a major point that is being missed. If there is a fairly simple mechanic present that can make one of two equal creatures/characters so significantly superior - my favorite word this week: immortal, then that mechanic doesn't so much need to be understood. It needs to be discarded or changed. We aren't playing Magic: The Gathering here, where if you get that perfect draw you end the match of 2 turns. There should be more to characters in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 3.5, 4th and 5th than the advatange of their stats and the mechanics of their rules, especially if those rules can be tweaked in such a way to give a massive, and unintended advantage.

Ready action gamebreaking situations

BENINHB

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irdeggman

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StreamOfTheSky

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irdeggman

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azhrei_fje

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Dandu

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StreamOfTheSky

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Festivus

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radira

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Bleys Icefalcon

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