renau1g
First Post
Just setting up a thread so we can discuss without hijacking Mowgli or Leif's threads.
I just read the PF Kingmaker Player's Guide and it sounds....awesome!
It adds an element of almost RTS-ness to the RPG as you can construct cities, rule the kingdom, but keeps all the cool D&D stuff, like exploration, killing things...and even is a sandbox type adventure.
I will likely try and convert this to 4e to see how it can work as I mentioned in Leif's thread, Paizo adventures are to me second to none, but I prefer the 4e ruleset. Let's see if I can combine my two favourite RPG elements into one.
So, long story short I will likely run it in a homebrew setting known as the Transitive Isles, which is the setting of the Living 4th Edition world
L4W:The Transitive Isles - ENWiki
However, I will have a new island appearing from the shifting seas which will be where this would take place on. It will use the names, etc from the Player's Guide (paizo.com - Pathfinder Adventure Path: Kingmaker Player's Guide PDF - free download) so it's a bit consistent. The only change will come with the gods, using the L4W ones, but I might keep the PF ones and have them as aspects of the L4W ones. One thing though is that the gods there are essentially unaligned ala the greek gods of old.
So, why am I posting this here? Well, I would like to offer everyone here the chance to play it first before I open up recruiting a bit more. Timeline for starting is likely a couple months away. I'd like to get through corporate tax season at work (which ends in June) before I really get it started.
There are some rather cumbersome templates to use there (as Mowgli has experienced in LEB), but we're working to remove a lot of those issues and are testing a google spreadsheet-based CS to make things easier.
Right now the Wiki is down and Morrus is working on it so I hope we don't lose stuff.
Mowgli's also found a few cool links:
Here's one that attempts to convert the background traits to 4e background benefits. I think they're a bit higher powered than the standard ones, so I'd have to say for where it says you add x and x to your skill list, and gain +1 (or +2) on skill checks replace the and's with or's to bring them in line with regular backgrounds.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan...background-traits-conversion.html#post5126124
Also, here's some info on the River Kingdoms he sent to me
[sblock=River Kingdom Info - Warning Long]
In the far-distant past, when forests covered much of Avistan and elves were the dominant race, the land now known as the River Kingdoms was verdant and lively. Streams ran quick and clear, and the land was green and firm. This territory adjoining Kyonin and Lake Encarthan was a place for high nobles and their courts to enjoy hunting and sport. The elves called it Telvurin, translated today in Taldane as “The Shifting Lands.” The departure of the elves gave the human race new territory to explore, putting them in conflict with lizardfolk, frog-men, and suspicious fey. With its dozens of tributary rivers dividing the region into countless small territories, it became a natural place for outcasts, rebels, and petty tyrants to stake claims and declare themselves rulers of whatever land they could grab and hold.
Millennia later, the pleasantness of the land remains. Unfortunately, so does the chaos. Very little stays static in the River Kingdoms. The rivers slowly shift boundaries over centuries, and kingdoms can trade hands yearly. Banditry is a national pastime, and security is a distant hope for commoners, reserved for people in other lands.
The River Kingdoms are a collection of often-fractious neighbors united only by their common geography and their near-anarchic independence. When the local lord may change from year to year, the nearest “king” is actually a bandit with delusions of grandeur, and the only thing protecting a rancher’s livestock is how well he can use a sword, the strong learn to depend on themselves and distrust those who break their word or exploit others. Though the leaders of the River Kingdoms are varied and ever-changing, the people—as stubborn and contrary as they may be—mark the character of the River Kingdoms: survivalist adaptability and stubborn endurance.
The first section of this book covers the geography of the River Kingdoms, how this region survives as a political entity despite not having a unified leader, the many types of governments that exist here, relations with other countries, and what life is like in this land. Any discussion of the River Kingdoms, of course, must address its bandit problem, its strange local deities, and the Six River Freedoms held common throughout the kingdoms.
The remainder of the book is a gazetteer of 22 of the most significant territories within the River Kingdoms. Eight of these are the largest and most stable: Daggermark, Gralton, Lambreth, Mivon, Pitax, Sevenarches, Tymon, and Uringen; though little more than city-states with ambiguous borders, these eight major kingdoms conduct trade and engage in diplomacy with nearby countries where smaller or newer kingdoms may be laughed off by merchants and foreign leaders. The other territories are smaller, more isolated kingdoms which may yet survive long enough to establish a permanent foothold in the manner of Daggermark and the other major players, or else places that lie fallow after wars, plagues, or unknown events. The Stolen Lands is the setting for the Kingmaker Adventure Path; whether or not you plan to run a campaign using that Adventure Path, this area is ripe for exploration and can easily be the site of a custom home-brewed campaign of conquest for ambitious PCs.
RIVER KINGDOMS GEOGRAPHY
The lay of the land is the direct result of the Sellen River and its many tributaries. The rich, damp soil supports ancient trees and traps water, creating dozens of isolated boggy areas with their own ecologies and pockets of native creatures.
The Sellen River
This wide, lazy river system drains across the gentle slopes of the River Kingdoms into Kallas Lake, and eventually empties into the Inner Sea. The Sellen is the main transport system of this region, as it or its tributaries touch most kingdoms in the nation. Thanks to the Third River Freedom (see page 7), these waterways are clear of any official obstruction to trade or travel. However, bandits and pirates ply all parts of the river, so travel and commerce are never certain. Merchants mainly move food around the kingdoms, but steady traffic in arms and armor makes traders both good targets for bandits and well prepared for them. Travelers also use the Sellen daily, and the western and main branches are highways for crusaders headed to Mendev. Of course, crusaders often feel obliged to halt wrongdoing along the way as well, or to stop and collect some much-appreciated “donations” to the cause.
In most places, the river is less than a mile wide and around 12 feet deep, best suited to barge travel. Bridges seldom last outside of the stable kingdoms, so ferryboats are common along the waterway.
Outsiders find it confusing that on many maps the tributaries are also called “the Sellen River.” The turnover of sovereignty leads to frequent renaming, making most names too temporary to be useful. When it’s relevant, the river is referred to by its three main branches: West Sellen, Main Sellen, and East Sellen, with specific sections of the river named according to the nearest kingdom through which it f lows. When conversing with a native about one of these confusingly named rivers, understanding the particulars of directions and locations requires a DC 15 Knowledge (local) skill check.
Forests
Over a dozen discrete forested areas cover much of the River Kingdoms. During the time of the elves, woods blanketed much more of the land in one or two vast forests that rivaled the size of the modern Verduran, but logging, blight, and fire culled many of the trees over the ages. The larger forests are still home to secretive fey, and all of them are havens for bandits and other undesirables.
Swamps
The many waterways are known to f lood and shift over time, and what was once a fertile plain can become a shallow lake in a particularly rainy season, eventually transforming into a bog. Conversely, the source of a swamp’s water may drift farther upstream, causing the swamp to dry out and revert to a forest or even a plain. Most plants of the River Kingdoms can adapt to wet or dry situations, though some thrive better in one or the other and are replaced by competitors when the environment changes too far from their optimal setup.
The waters carry silt and nutrients to all parts of the River Kingdoms, and crops grow well here, leading some enterprising settlers to plant on dry areas or small, clearcut sites, moving their plots as the terrain accommodates these alterations. This constant change means that maps drawn a decade ago may contain signif icant errors regarding wilderness areas, and those from a century before may be all but unrecognizable except for the names of settlements.
THE PRIZED PROFESSIONS
In most countries, food producers are at the bottom of the pecking order. Large nations need tons of food to feed their populace. Not so in the River Kingdoms, where smaller, scattered populations require less food, and a willingness to take charge of crops or livestock is practically an act of def iance. Able farmers and herders earn respect for daring to do their jobs. Indeed, food suppliers are local heroes, and wise lords court their involvement, especially since the Third River Freedom makes standard feudalism impossible. Mistreated farmers or herders can leave and receive a hero’s welcome a day’s walk away if they’re willing to contribute their skills to that community. This makes farming and ranching among the noblest professions among Riverfolk, the work of the courageous few who feed their families and safeguard communities against raiders and the hazards of nature.
Soldiers are the other laurelled professionals in the River Kingdoms. A lord may have only a few dozen loyal soldiers, with the rest of his military made up of mercenaries. Anyone can carry a spear, but a soldier trained with weapons, steeled to battle, and devoted to a king is worth more than his or her salary. Few kingdoms bother to differentiate between military and city watch—soldiers handle both roles. An experienced, loyal soldier is respected by local Riverfolk as a guardian. This appreciation has a bolstering effect on soldiers who guard a kingdom. Some remain tied to the people of the land, and accept new lords as they come and go as long as the common people are treated well; others prefer to find a more compatible liege in another kingdom when the local ruler changes.
THE THREAT OF INVASION
Many a roving eye has looked at the fine pastures and fields of the River Kingdoms with intent to claim them. The pickings look easy, but the doing has proven difficult. Rulers in the River Kingdoms are fractious neighbors, but common enemies bind them like sovereign glue.
Razmiran, Numeria, and Galt are the foreign governments most frequently making claims to land here, but none have made a long-standing claim to more than a section of the River Kingdoms. Generally, chaos within the kingdoms—disorganization, madness, or simple stubbornness—prevents these other countries from mounting a unified offense, but the land proves tricky to hold. The people are recalcitrant, and the rivers favor entrenched defenders.
Furthermore, the River Kingdoms represent one of the geographically larger political entities in Avistan, comparable in size to Varisia or Cheliax, and larger than Andoran or Qadira. Taking the land might be relatively standard warfare, but occupying it is another matter. Few nations have the army to hold such acreage. Thus, the River Kingdoms remain unconquered by external forces. Only small-scale, internal strife leaves its mark.
The Outlaw Council
Consisting of leaders from the most significant kingdoms, the Outlaw Council provides the only political stability the land has ever known. Rulers from all kingdoms are invited to attend this yearly council in Daggermark, but only lords from Daggermark, Gralton, Lambreth, Mivon, Pitax, the Protectorate of the Black Marquis, Sevenarches, Tymon, and Uringen are truly respected. Other kingdoms are considered too transient to merit full consideration in the proceedings, though in the spirit of unity they are allowed to attend and speak occasionally. Unlike in other meetings, mere representatives are not allowed to speak—a lord must attend personally to have a voice.
Topics of yearly discourse include negotiating treaties, defense against mutual threats, food distribution, recognition of sovereignty, and solving smaller, interpersonal matters before they become armed conf licts. The meeting hall where the Outlaw Council gathers is considered neutral territory—no king rules any other there, even Livondar, Lord of Daggermark. However, Daggermark’s famed assassins are on silent duty as servants throughout the meeting, making the Outlaw Council meeting the worst time of the year to attempt a Daggermark coup.
FORMS OF GOVERNMENT
Nearly every type of government imaginable has been attempted within the River Kingdoms, and will likely be attempted again. Below is a list of the most common government types that appear in the River Kingdoms. Government types can be mixed, such as an ethnocratic oligarchy. Types include:
Anarchy: The complete absence of organized government. This state exists intermittently throughout the River Kingdoms, but sustaining it as a form of actual policy is exceptionally difficult.
Aristocracy: Rule by a hereditary class of people. Usually subsumed under a monarchy.
Autocracy: Government in which one person has sole, unrestricted rule. Also known as despotism. The majority of River Kingdoms are ruled by autocrats.
Bureaucracy: Rule through a system of departments or bureaus, arranged in a hierarchy of authority. Department heads and staff are usually appointed rather than elected or openly decided.
Confederacy: Rule under a union of states, organizations, or individuals.
Democracy: Majority rule by the people. Rulers are elected from among the populace.
Dictatorship: Although a form of autocracy, a dictator has no plans or aspirations for hereditary rule.
Ethnocracy: Government in which rulership is limited to those of a particular ethnicity or race.
Feudality: A loosely defined form of government consisting of binding agreements between lords and vassals. The River Freedoms make traditional concepts of feudalism difficult to sustain, but versions of this agreement frequently crop up in unstable regions.
Gerontocracy: Rule determined by the eldest—usually a group of elders, rather than the single oldest person.
Gynarchy: Explicit rule by females. See “matriarchy.”
Kritocracy/Kritarchy: Rule by judges. The former is rule by a judge’s personal opinion, whereas the latter is rule by comparison to an external standard, such as “natural rights.”
Magocracy: Rule by secular magical authority, usually a single wizard or sorcerer.
Matriarchy: Rule by a mother figure, within a familial social system.
Meritocracy: Government by those who demonstrate talent or ability in a certain position.
Militocracy: System of rule where the military holds full authority (another River Kingdoms favorite).
Monarchy: Government where supreme authority is held by one hereditary ruler, typically referred to as a king or queen. Many River Kingdom autocrats declare themselves monarchs.
Ochlocracy: Rule by a mob with no formal authority.
Oligarchy: Rule by an elite few.
Patriarchy: Rule by a single father figure, within a familial social system.
Pedocracy: Government by the learned or scholarly.
Plutocracy: Rulership by the rich. Although the wealthy always have power over government, plutocracy is explicit, literal rule by the wealthiest.
Republic: A form of government where the people ruled can indirectly affect the government through representatives.
Syndicracy: Rule by a business group.
Theocracy: Though technically meaning direct rule by a deity, theocracy is often defined as rule by clergy who act on a deity’s dictates. Also known as a hierocracy or emirate. Within the River Kingdoms, “kingdom” is considered acceptable shorthand when referring to an autonomousstate, and “lord” is the generic term of address for a ruler, regardless of a ruler’s form of government or sex.
LIFE IN THE RIVER KINGDOMS
Passing crusaders headed to Mendev complain of the chaos in the River Kingdoms, but this is hyperbole. Far removed from the horror of the Worldwound, the River Kingdoms are as predictable as a cauldron—you never know what will come bubbling up, but you can be sure the whole thing is hot. This heat makes the River Kingdoms a singular place to live. The River Kingdoms are split into more than two dozen sovereign realms, ruled by despots of varying temperament. Tyrants who raise a keep in the River Kingdoms often hail from surrounding lands, but are almost always castoffs, criminals, or wayward offspring of more important folk. Most rule by force, though some are gentler than others.
Life in the River Kingdoms is harsh. Bandits can attack at any time, local governments shift like riverbanks, invading armies pillage the land, and unexpected monstrous and magical threats occur with alarming frequency. Every family has lost someone to sudden violence. The perilous uncertainty keeps everyone tense, suspicious, and often angry. Trust is paramount. Anyone unrecognizable is not just a potential threat, but also a potential vanguard for an army of threats. “Trust costs more than money” is a common Riverfolk aphorism.
For all this danger, though, the land is still beautiful and bountiful. Even the marshes and forests are fertile. Raiders, not the land or weather, make farming hard. Wheat, corn, oats, and rice are quick and plentiful crops grown throughout the kingdoms. Livestock grow fat on the rich grasses fed by the hydra-headed tributaries of the Sellen River.
Riverfolk love politics, and talk about it in the same manner as farmers talk weather: maybe they can’t do anything about it, but they discuss it endlessly. Any given Riverfolk has an opinion about which form of government is best, how the local leader is doing, and how all the neighboring kingdoms’ leaders are doing.
Living in the River Kingdoms requires protection. Farms and livestock pens are small and well defended, as though each were a small fortress. Moats and earthworks surround the better-established ones, and most farms also have a defendable cellar into which farmers and their families can retreat. Even hamlets and thorps have their own stockade walls, and most commoners wear weapons openly, “to keep everyone honest.”
Trades that require complex support, such as alchemy, are rare and short-lived. Functional, relatively mobile livelihoods thrive here, including tanning, herding, brewing, and other forms of craftsmanship.
Bandits
Far more bandits roam the Kingdoms than one would think the population could absorb. Criminals and castoffs from nearby nations, as well as natives, frequently take a turn at banditry here. The law is f lexible, and the Sixth River Freedom subtly encourages it.
Despite the fierce reputation of River Kingdoms bandits, many young men and women only try banditry as a side job, or as a found opportunity when they happen upon treasure left in weak hands. For a few, it’s the only way to retrieve what was stolen from them first. Other bandits are mercenary soldiers turned out of their previous jobs. They would rather fight than steal, but they’d rather live than starve.
Commoners are a hardscrabble lot, so for profit, bandits target wealthy outsiders. Most cities contain lookouts for bandit crews, gathering information on likely visiting targets, or offering guide services to lure visitors into traps. The locals are always wise to these tricks, and for a handful of coppers, a local can usually identify the lookouts... assuming he isn’t one of them himself.
For a charismatic few, banditry is a path to legitimacy. Bandit gangs past a certain size gain their own gravity; highway robbery becomes usurpation at a surprisingly low threshold in the River Kingdoms. More than once, a bandit leader has ended up taking over a keep that he only meant to plunder at the outset.
Yet the River Kingdoms are far from lawless; it’s just that the laws they adhere to appear lawless in practice. The Six River Freedoms receive a lot of lip service, but the primary law of the River Kingdoms is that power rules. The members of the Outlaw Council would be quick to inform would-be philosophers that all nations follow this rule; the River Kingdoms just aren’t shy about admitting it.
The Six River Freedoms
Frequently invoked—and occasionally trampled—the River Freedoms are the ideological backbone for common Riverfolk. Outsiders who expect to lead Riverfolk must quickly make themselves aware of the subtleties of the River Freedoms, as those who repeatedly f lout a beloved freedom find themselves deposed by a mob. Indeed, the River Freedoms find their most curious interpretations in the folkways of common Riverfolk. A quick-witted wag who quotes a freedom to justify her actions can sway hearts to accept the most egregious behavior, and a misinterpretation of words can get an honest paladin driven out with malice.
Philosophers and scholars who study the political landscapes of the River Kingdoms rank the River Freedoms in order from least to most grave—after all, no one seriously believes in unfettered freedom to speak at all times. However, slavery is as serious an offense here as in Andoran, and nothing is so sacred to Riverfolk as the freedom to keep what one holds.
Say What You Will, I Live Free: The freedom to speak is not the same as freedom from consequences of speech. Outsiders, drunkards, and fools are the only ones who vocally invoke this freedom. All others respect it, and live with it accordingly.
Still, criticism of government is more common here than in other lands. Cruel despots occasionally get an earful from their subjects, and the wise ones do not harshly punish such vocal rabble. In the River Kingdoms, subjects are earned by withstanding criticism rather than suppressing it. Pride sometimes intervenes, but a long-lasting lord is one who lets tongues wag.
This freedom is especially tantalizing for bards and anyone using charm magic. No one attempts to limit a spellcaster’s speech, and a silence spell is a suspicious abrogation of rights.
Oathbreakers Die: The flip side of free speech in the River Kingdoms is the gravity of oath-breaking. Petty liars are common, but in a land where tomorrow can bring a gang of mercenaries, the people in charge must know whom they can trust. Common oaths include “I swear by the Sellen,” “May Hanspur take my sons,” and “My freedom is my bond.” Riverfolk who undertake oaths of this nature keep them, or die trying. This attitude trickles down to business transactions, but can ironically make things more difficult—it’s hard to get a Riverfolk trader to fully commit to anything. Standard contracts contain a “Gyronna clause” which voids a contract in case of unforeseen calamity. This would seem a perfect dodge for scoundrels, but associating with Gyronna is the worst omen a Riverfolk trader can invoke. No one deals with a trader who admits aff liction by Gyronna, lest the association rub off.
Walk Any Road, Float Any River: This freedom implies no safety while traveling, especially from the local lord. It merely prevents lords from blocking land and water travel, or charging tolls for passing (except for non-Riverfolk). Of course, any ruler who doesn’t want people on his roads can bar them without erecting a single block—threats, bribes, political pressure, or hiring “bandits” are just as effective.
However, in practice, it means no lord can take his or her people for granted. Most Riverfolk do not leave their homes for anything but essential travel, no matter who is in charge (and poor Riverfolk usually have nowhere else to go), but they might still move to a new kingdom if their lord is abusive. This escape is rarely necessary. A lord who wants a functioning kingdom knows not to treat subjects too harshly, or the best ones will disappear, leaving a half-empty kingdom behind.
Courts Are for Kings: Buried midway down the list is one that undergirds them all: law within the River Kingdoms is malleable, and the rulers of a kingdom do as they wish. In their lands, one must obey. Whether a visitor is a commoner or a neighboring king, all are subject to a lord’s law within his own territory, and anyone who disobeys must be prepared for punishment or a declaration of war.
As a result, rulers seldom visit each other directly. Intermediaries do the talking, even when lords are scant miles away. When face-to-face negotiations occur, the monarchs often take great pains to protect their own sovereignty, even going so far as to set up camp tents on shared borders, talking across a rope line hung with pennants from both kingdoms. The major exception is the yearly Outlaw Council, where the meeting hall is considered politically neutral.
Slavery is an Abomination: Nothing is so secure in the River Kingdoms as freedom for escaped slaves. Unlike Andorens, Riverfolk won’t leave their homes to free slaves, but a runaway in the River Kingdoms is a slave no more.
Some estimates say that one-third of the Riverfolk alive today are escaped slaves or descendants of slaves. Riverfolk welcome thousands of escaped slaves to all kingdoms each year, to fill ranks in armies and agriculture. Escaped slaves are usually the fiercest proponents of the River Freedoms, as these conventions are the first taste of freedom in their new lives. Because of this freedom, Hellknights of the Order of the Chain and other slave-takers cannot operate openly here, and any Andoren Eagle Knight can dispel most Riverfolk’s natural distrust of strangers by showing her insignia—and get a free drink and a barn to sleep in.
Depending on the local custom, this abolition can extend to indentured servitude. Spellcasters are warned to be circumspect when summoning monsters in the River Kingdoms, lest their magic be misinterpreted.
You Have What You Hold: In contrast to many other civilizations on Golarion, this freedom draws a moral distinction between robbery and mere stealing. Taking something by force is considered acceptable, even begrudgingly praiseworthy. Burglary, on the other hand, is punishable under common law. The difference is in allowing a victim the ability to resist, the opportunity to face his or her robber, and to plan for repossession if so desired. This allows for a rough honesty, letting Riverfolk know and face their enemies.
[/sblock]
Mowgli also pointed out that there's a Guide to the River Kingdoms being published right now by Paizo that will detail the region where the AP takes place. I've ordered that too (damn you Mowgli! Don't tell my wife
) so I'll be able to inject some more flavour between adventures if you want to go off the beaten path. So.... what's next? Well I'm waiting for my order to come. You can all begin discussing PC's and asking me any questions and I'll do my best to answer them.
Game Thread:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/living...venture-kingmaker-dm-renau1g-judge-garyh.html
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