Proposal: Establish the major Evil forces at work in L4W

Fragsie

Explorer
I like what you have written for Bolbotham, but I'm not sure about the fact that he is an aboleth. I think that by making that definition you are restricting it's dominion.
We only really need one Big Bad from the Far Realms, and I believe it should be one that could encompass all threats from that plane. I am mixing your ideas in with what I have started writing, should be posted by the end of today.
 

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Fragsie

Explorer
[sblock=Azathoth]Azathoth

In the time before mortals, Ge and Ouranos fell into an eternal slumber leaving their children; the gods, to shape the world they had created. Though apart from the world in their sleep, the great Aeons were still bound to that which they had created and in their dreams they wept as their children battled against the Titans.
When; through the allegiance of the angels and others, the gods finally won their war, they crafted a prison called Thartharus deep within creation and there chained the greatest of the Titans. Their malice corrupted all around them and made their own prison far worse than ever would it had been. For countless eons, Thartharus has grown and swelled with its own corruption as a cancer deep within the earth.
This malignant blight crept slowly into the dreams of Ge and Ouranos, turning them into nightmares. The Aeons dreamt of such twisted and demented horrors, such intense agony, hatred and malice, that they stirred in their slumber, and forced the nightmare away.
Beyond Elysium; far away from the mortal realm, in the place of Ge and Ouranos’ own creation, Azathoth was born. The nightmare given form, Azathoth was thrust into a new world, a world that was painful to him in its difference, and so he reached out his tentacles and spread his madness, reaching into the minds of any life he found and enslaving it to his own. This way he learned of creation, and he desired it.
Azathoth, though thoroughly evil in his madness, is a patient entity. It saw the power that other life could posses and so he crept slowly from star to star, twisting them to his will. He created children of his own to reach out beyond what he had claimed into Elysium and Herebos and to the Shifting Seas.
First of his children was made to Behold the world so that Azathoth could see was would one day be his, and she became known as the Great Mother for she had many offspring with Azathoth. Each of their children had many eyes so that Azathoth’s vision could spread far.
Second was Bolbothan, Azathoth’s favourite child who he sent deep under the shifting seas to raise an army in secret for the day when he finally took his rightful place as master of all. To Bolbothan first of the Aboleths, Azathoth gave some of his essence to spread his madness.
It’s most likely that Azathoth has many other children, each subtly infiltrating reality working toward his end goal of twisting everything to it’s own madness and sitting upon a throne at the centre of creation.
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Voda Vosa

First Post
This picture looks like what I had thought of Ragaman's golem body

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Mal Malenkirk

First Post
I'm reluctant to see Bolbothan as a drow's lieutenant after the "I hate drows" background I made up. It will totally alter it's flavor.

As a side note I was about to submit Ragaman, the archmage of the seventh city of the Blazin desert.

I would have seen it more lile a vassal biding its time, but fair enough.

If he can't be a lieutenant, then he needs to be bigger. Like Fragsie said, if he is gonna stand on his own, then he would need to stand for more than just Aboleth and thralls, the same way that Akneth doesn't stand just for underground dragons and drows.

We don't want to end up with several dozens of threats. I am thinking somewhere between 6 and 8 is more than enough.

There is room for a far realm threat so if you wist to, go for it. Or course, Fragsie also is thinking about something from the far realms. Compare notes?

EDIT: Ah, it seems that it's what you are doing with Azathot.
 

Mal Malenkirk

First Post
Has the plane system been hashed out?

You are using Tartarus, but that's basically the titan's prison, and wouldn't that be the Abyss in D&D terms? I assumed the demon lords are the fallen/imprisoned Primordials/Titans, right?

We might also need a thread were we all agree what is what, plane-wise, or this is going to be another source of confusion.
 
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BenBrown

First Post
I think it's really neat that you're doing this, but I would like to caution against codifying too much stuff. I personally find the level of definition in most published D&D settings rather stifling. While it's nice to get names and brief descriptions for some leading forces of evil, I'd rather start with a few and let others develop through the ideas that come to various DMs as they plan adventures.
 

Mal Malenkirk

First Post
While it's nice to get names and brief descriptions for some leading forces of evil, I'd rather start with a few and let others develop through the ideas that come to various DMs as they plan adventures.

The problem is that very few DM will use the personal creation of another DM.

Left unchecked, by the time we are into paragon levels, a player could adventure under two different DM (perhaps simulteneously, since we have up to 3 PC!) and be confronted by two irreconcialable version of who or what the lord of devils is.

Passed a certain point, all adventure involve epic threats and we'll end up with so many different versions that the players will chuckle when a new one is introduced.

-''Oh, so you are the mad god that will try to destroy creation this week? Cool, you'll be my third and I have heard of four more. Of course, on all previous occasions, the would be destroyer of the word was just barely thwarted and promised to try again.

So if I were you, I would hurry, or someone might beat you to the punch line. That would make you a laughing stock at the 'Apocalypse Convention' held later this month!''

---

DM are free to tinker with henchmen and the lieutenants. Or with lesser, self contained threats.

But IMO the top of the pyramid has to be codified just like we codified the pantheon. Otherwise, we might as well not be adventuring in the same world.
 

Fragsie

Explorer
You are using Tartarus, but that's basically the titan's prison, and wouldn't that be the Abyss in D&D terms? I assumed the demon lords are the fallen/imprisoned Primordials/Titans, right?

I did see Tatrtarus as the Abyss yes. It was the creation of Tartarus that caused Ge and Ouranous to have nightmares, those nightmares gave birth to Azathoth, who then twisted the Far Realm into existence far on the other side of the Astral Sea (Elysium)
 

ScorpiusRisk

First Post
On the topic of the planes. . . to my knowledge the following planes have been established to have existed:

1. The Feywild.
2. Herebos, plane of death and home of Lauto
3. The Shadowfell
4. The Abyss
5. A Place where demons come from
6. A place where devils come from
7. A Place where gods hang out.
8. The Far Realm


2 and 3 may be the same place. Cabana and I were trying to figure that out and one point. I'm currently in favor of making them one and the same, but maybe more separate from the material world than 4e standard.

4-6 may be the same, or some may be the same as well. I think its been established that these exist though.

I do not think 6 and 7 should be the same.

I've always been partial of the Astral Sea being reachable by traveling high enough up. I don't know how others feel about that.

I also think we need some kind of elemental plane(s).
 

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