A Song of Ice and Fire : Character Stats
- Thread starter The Fool
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Grand Admiral Reese
First Post
It'd be interesting to see them done. Mostly fighters(pretty much everyone), barbarians(wildlings and mountain clans), rogues(Varys, he's a rogue if I ever saw one) and rangers(the Night's Watch) I'd imagine. With a few clerics(Thoros & Melissandre as well as the Septons) and fairly low-level wizards(Warlocks of Quarth, Shadowbinders of Asshai) thrown in. Not many bards save Mance Rayder and some of those singers from King's Landing. Only a very few people goodly enough to qualify as Paladins. Ser Arthur Dayne comes to mind, and he's long dead. Nobody comes to mind as a monk. The Green Men and Children of the Forest would probably alll be Druids. Bran might be on that road, as is Jojen Reed. Warging could replace Wildshape, really.
Lots of Aristocrats(Noble Ladies) and Experts(Maesters, they might be put as Loremasters, also). A few with the Assassain PrC(Faceless Men, Sorrowful Men).
I'll try to think up some actual stats later...
Lots of Aristocrats(Noble Ladies) and Experts(Maesters, they might be put as Loremasters, also). A few with the Assassain PrC(Faceless Men, Sorrowful Men).
I'll try to think up some actual stats later...
Brudewollen
First Post
ASoIaF stats
I have thought about doing this, except I never quite had a really strong enough impetus to do it because I'm running a game and that takes more time then I have as it is. It would be fun though. I think an ASoIaF game would really necessitate a very different game then D&D, though.
It would need a new magic system, and it would have to take a back seat big-time to the fighting and intrigue aspects of the game. An ASoIaF game would really deal in a lot of diplomacy types of skills (I would add variations like seduction, etc.).
There's a chance for some cool prestige classes, groups like The Unsullied would be a great prestige class that probably would be an outgrowth of fighters. Dothraki horsemen might take a prestige class later in their careers to become really amazing riders. Perhaps there's a few others, like Water Dancers, Faceless Men and probably more then one variation on knighthood as a prestige class (the Cavelier for the tourney knight, etc.)
Skin Changers and Green Seers might be variant druid classes, or they might be types of prestige classes.
Basically, I don't think it would work as a straight D&D conversion, it would need to be reworked into it's own system...not unlike the way Cthulhu was reworked to really drop the standard power levels of the PCs (though in that they aren't even expected to live very long).
I have thought about doing this, except I never quite had a really strong enough impetus to do it because I'm running a game and that takes more time then I have as it is. It would be fun though. I think an ASoIaF game would really necessitate a very different game then D&D, though.
It would need a new magic system, and it would have to take a back seat big-time to the fighting and intrigue aspects of the game. An ASoIaF game would really deal in a lot of diplomacy types of skills (I would add variations like seduction, etc.).
There's a chance for some cool prestige classes, groups like The Unsullied would be a great prestige class that probably would be an outgrowth of fighters. Dothraki horsemen might take a prestige class later in their careers to become really amazing riders. Perhaps there's a few others, like Water Dancers, Faceless Men and probably more then one variation on knighthood as a prestige class (the Cavelier for the tourney knight, etc.)
Skin Changers and Green Seers might be variant druid classes, or they might be types of prestige classes.
Basically, I don't think it would work as a straight D&D conversion, it would need to be reworked into it's own system...not unlike the way Cthulhu was reworked to really drop the standard power levels of the PCs (though in that they aren't even expected to live very long).
Skade
Explorer
originally in my D20 publishers forum post
Unfortunatly it probably is not very well in keeping with normal DnD, but then neither was Wheel of Time. I am not a huge fan of the Wheel of Time series, despite my healthy respect for Robert Jordan, but I loved the RPG. The very different magic system of that world was translated fairly well into D20, I think the same could be done here.
As far as DnD rules go most of the classes work with minimal changes. Fighter and and rogue no change. Bard could be very similar to gleeman in WoT, or the nonmagical bard in AEG swashbucker book. Barbarian has no problem. Druid is possible, as we know there are least some Greensers in the world, Brand becoming one of them. They would be no more difficult to rationalize than all the Jedi that ran around during rebeliion era games. The same thing applies to Wizards and Clerics. The Red Priest Melisandre could be either (and made with the BoVD, IMO). We have other examples of spellcasters in the Danaerys chapters.
New classes presented could be cool. 1) Maester, the most educated men of the realm, mastering such varied subjects as chemistry, medicine, engineering, smithing and theoretical magic. Possibly built along bard lines, with more social skills and practical use feats. Not really adventurers from the examples we see, but younger more "adventurous" ones are possible. 2) Knights as a base class rather than a prestige class. You would have to play up the difference in training, like horse oriented abilities and courtly skills and feats. 3) Swordman-swashbuckling men with light weapons such as Syrio Forel. 4) a new nonmagical priest class
You have prestige classes like 1) wargs - barbarians who have learned to change shape into various animals. 2) Knights of the Watch, accostomed to the harsh lands of the frozen north. 3) Whitecloaks (admitedly there can only be seven? or is it twelve?) who are gaurdians of the king.
Just some thoughts
Unfortunatly it probably is not very well in keeping with normal DnD, but then neither was Wheel of Time. I am not a huge fan of the Wheel of Time series, despite my healthy respect for Robert Jordan, but I loved the RPG. The very different magic system of that world was translated fairly well into D20, I think the same could be done here.
As far as DnD rules go most of the classes work with minimal changes. Fighter and and rogue no change. Bard could be very similar to gleeman in WoT, or the nonmagical bard in AEG swashbucker book. Barbarian has no problem. Druid is possible, as we know there are least some Greensers in the world, Brand becoming one of them. They would be no more difficult to rationalize than all the Jedi that ran around during rebeliion era games. The same thing applies to Wizards and Clerics. The Red Priest Melisandre could be either (and made with the BoVD, IMO). We have other examples of spellcasters in the Danaerys chapters.
New classes presented could be cool. 1) Maester, the most educated men of the realm, mastering such varied subjects as chemistry, medicine, engineering, smithing and theoretical magic. Possibly built along bard lines, with more social skills and practical use feats. Not really adventurers from the examples we see, but younger more "adventurous" ones are possible. 2) Knights as a base class rather than a prestige class. You would have to play up the difference in training, like horse oriented abilities and courtly skills and feats. 3) Swordman-swashbuckling men with light weapons such as Syrio Forel. 4) a new nonmagical priest class
You have prestige classes like 1) wargs - barbarians who have learned to change shape into various animals. 2) Knights of the Watch, accostomed to the harsh lands of the frozen north. 3) Whitecloaks (admitedly there can only be seven? or is it twelve?) who are gaurdians of the king.
Just some thoughts
Brudewollen
First Post
Re: originally in my D20 publishers forum post
There are a lot of similarities to classes, but power levels need to be dropped way down for the spell casters (though with magic coming back into the world through the next 3 books, this could really change). In D&D terms Melisandre really seems to be either a Wizard/Cleric, or maybe more likely a prestige class Cleric with specific fire and shadow abilities.
I had thought about putting a version of Maesters into my D&D game, though I never fully worked out the class. My concept was that they would have the most skill points of any class, even Rogues, but little else. Their major ability would be to confer their skill, plus INT modifier (or some part of it) onto other characters. So it went beyond the normal +2 bonus for successfully cooperating with a another character. They could give maybe 1/2 or all of their skill (I hadn't played around with this in game to see what would be balanced, but all sounds a bit high).
I disagree, I think the Cavelier PrC (or something similar) works great for tourney oriented knights, but what is a knight in a melee, or in battle, just pretty kick ass fighter (much of the time) with a symbol on his shield. That was often the point of many parts of the books - the knights were often greater butchers and far less "noble" then the commoners they raped and slaughtered, often with such glee. Certain knights might take various PrCs as they specialize in different areas of combat, but to start, I think Fighters make the most sense.
Yeah, again there are prestige classes that are in the right vein and someone with the right feats can already work themselves towards this either as a Fighter or Rogue, probably.
I think this would probably more like an NPC class, like an Expert, probably, maybe one of the others. They just take a lot of Skill Points in religion and some other areas of learning.
These three definitely seem to be PrC material, though how do you account for the 3 types of Brothers of the Knights Watch (Rangers, Stewards and Builders). If the PrC simply gives them certain cold weather survival skills and keeps them advancing in their current class abilities, though slightly diminished, somehow, then it makes some more sense.
Wargs I always saw more as a variation on Druids, skin changing is like a different sort of Wild Shape, almost.
As for the Whitecloaks, there were 7. Again, though, donning the cloak was only symbolic. Not all of the Whitecloaks took their oaths too seriously, certainly not the Kettleblacks, not to mention guys like Ser Meryn Trant who was a horrid knight, no nobility at all (but badass fighter, to be sure). The only ones mentioned that really seemed to live up to the ideal were Barristan the Bold, Balon Swann and probably Ser Arthur Dayne, from the histories. And what of Sandor, he took the Whitecloak, but never even accepted a knighthood - he hated knights. Unfortunately, part of the flavor of the books is that many of these trappings are just that, trappings - illusions. They don't confer any greater ability or honor, just fancier clothes. For this reason, asigning powers/abilities based on them ultimately destroys the feel of the setting.
Skade said:
There are a lot of similarities to classes, but power levels need to be dropped way down for the spell casters (though with magic coming back into the world through the next 3 books, this could really change). In D&D terms Melisandre really seems to be either a Wizard/Cleric, or maybe more likely a prestige class Cleric with specific fire and shadow abilities.
I had thought about putting a version of Maesters into my D&D game, though I never fully worked out the class. My concept was that they would have the most skill points of any class, even Rogues, but little else. Their major ability would be to confer their skill, plus INT modifier (or some part of it) onto other characters. So it went beyond the normal +2 bonus for successfully cooperating with a another character. They could give maybe 1/2 or all of their skill (I hadn't played around with this in game to see what would be balanced, but all sounds a bit high).
I disagree, I think the Cavelier PrC (or something similar) works great for tourney oriented knights, but what is a knight in a melee, or in battle, just pretty kick ass fighter (much of the time) with a symbol on his shield. That was often the point of many parts of the books - the knights were often greater butchers and far less "noble" then the commoners they raped and slaughtered, often with such glee. Certain knights might take various PrCs as they specialize in different areas of combat, but to start, I think Fighters make the most sense.
Yeah, again there are prestige classes that are in the right vein and someone with the right feats can already work themselves towards this either as a Fighter or Rogue, probably.
I think this would probably more like an NPC class, like an Expert, probably, maybe one of the others. They just take a lot of Skill Points in religion and some other areas of learning.
These three definitely seem to be PrC material, though how do you account for the 3 types of Brothers of the Knights Watch (Rangers, Stewards and Builders). If the PrC simply gives them certain cold weather survival skills and keeps them advancing in their current class abilities, though slightly diminished, somehow, then it makes some more sense.
Wargs I always saw more as a variation on Druids, skin changing is like a different sort of Wild Shape, almost.
As for the Whitecloaks, there were 7. Again, though, donning the cloak was only symbolic. Not all of the Whitecloaks took their oaths too seriously, certainly not the Kettleblacks, not to mention guys like Ser Meryn Trant who was a horrid knight, no nobility at all (but badass fighter, to be sure). The only ones mentioned that really seemed to live up to the ideal were Barristan the Bold, Balon Swann and probably Ser Arthur Dayne, from the histories. And what of Sandor, he took the Whitecloak, but never even accepted a knighthood - he hated knights. Unfortunately, part of the flavor of the books is that many of these trappings are just that, trappings - illusions. They don't confer any greater ability or honor, just fancier clothes. For this reason, asigning powers/abilities based on them ultimately destroys the feel of the setting.
Skade
Explorer
Happy Thanksgiving.
Maybe I should have said a Noble base class rather than a Knight. I don't want to repeat the noble in Star Wars, but rather a class that has some combat skill, particularly with heavy armor and horse (something that only those of at least the rank of knight could usually afford), but still gained prestige oriented abilities or some other ability that translated into the power that only someone of rank could posess. You are right about the savagery of the "knights" however, but I have never assumed that the title meant noble in our sense of the word. Since the fighter class does not deal with even Robb's training in courtly affairs I think a class along these lines would be in order.
Now, certainly the swashbuckler could be done without a new class, using feats and skills, or even tossing some rogue or bard I there. I would like to see some greater benefit of not having heavy armor, and possibly not even all martial weapons as a part of the class. Replacing these class skills with more appropriate abilities. This could be done simply by a modification of the original class, but many new base classes are just that.
Though none of the major characters have yet been Spetons or Septas, I am sure someone may want to see them in play. I do not remember any references to the folowers of the Seven having ever had magic, but the priest of the .... (Brain is frozen..) Oh, the god Thoros and that Red Witch worship-do obviously have access to magic. Followers of the seven, if for no other reason than game balance should have some sort of class skills that seperate them from simple experts. What if they are similar to Bards in that they can inspire, or otherwise affect morale?
As to the Knights of the Watch- I would have to giove some more thought on that one. Rangers seem obvious. We simply create a cold oriented ranger, sans magic. (Or maybe not, we'll have to see what George does.) Stewards, although certainly interesting seem more akin to experts than even the Septons do. Builders would take some sort of siege engineering PrC, similar to the carb class from Rokugan.
On to the Whitecloaks. I imagine if this project were to be done it would be made in such a way that it could be played at other eras in his world. In fact, it may be easier on some DMs. You can play with the themes and not step on the story. In any case, then or now I think the Whitecloaks in the hundreds of years they have existed would have learned a few defensive manuevers or ways of intercepting blows for their king, or other charges. Some of those knights you mentioned only died in the last 20 years. Those days may be gone, but it might be fun to see players with those ideals, and the skills to uphold them.
I don't belive I ever placed any particular reverence upon the nature, or morality of the characters named. In these days of Westeros, yes, the symbols and the imagery of the past is simply illusion, a sad attempt at appearsing as if nothing has changed. I don't think it changes the feel of the books at all. Secondly, a PrC doesn't confer new abilities just because you got a new cloak, anyone could be Whitecloak without having a Whitecloak PrC in their character description. the PrC is available to them because they have joined their ranks, and more importantly have commited to the necessary training to learn these specific skills. Nothing magical here.
Maybe I should have said a Noble base class rather than a Knight. I don't want to repeat the noble in Star Wars, but rather a class that has some combat skill, particularly with heavy armor and horse (something that only those of at least the rank of knight could usually afford), but still gained prestige oriented abilities or some other ability that translated into the power that only someone of rank could posess. You are right about the savagery of the "knights" however, but I have never assumed that the title meant noble in our sense of the word. Since the fighter class does not deal with even Robb's training in courtly affairs I think a class along these lines would be in order.
Now, certainly the swashbuckler could be done without a new class, using feats and skills, or even tossing some rogue or bard I there. I would like to see some greater benefit of not having heavy armor, and possibly not even all martial weapons as a part of the class. Replacing these class skills with more appropriate abilities. This could be done simply by a modification of the original class, but many new base classes are just that.
Though none of the major characters have yet been Spetons or Septas, I am sure someone may want to see them in play. I do not remember any references to the folowers of the Seven having ever had magic, but the priest of the .... (Brain is frozen..) Oh, the god Thoros and that Red Witch worship-do obviously have access to magic. Followers of the seven, if for no other reason than game balance should have some sort of class skills that seperate them from simple experts. What if they are similar to Bards in that they can inspire, or otherwise affect morale?
As to the Knights of the Watch- I would have to giove some more thought on that one. Rangers seem obvious. We simply create a cold oriented ranger, sans magic. (Or maybe not, we'll have to see what George does.) Stewards, although certainly interesting seem more akin to experts than even the Septons do. Builders would take some sort of siege engineering PrC, similar to the carb class from Rokugan.
On to the Whitecloaks. I imagine if this project were to be done it would be made in such a way that it could be played at other eras in his world. In fact, it may be easier on some DMs. You can play with the themes and not step on the story. In any case, then or now I think the Whitecloaks in the hundreds of years they have existed would have learned a few defensive manuevers or ways of intercepting blows for their king, or other charges. Some of those knights you mentioned only died in the last 20 years. Those days may be gone, but it might be fun to see players with those ideals, and the skills to uphold them.
I don't belive I ever placed any particular reverence upon the nature, or morality of the characters named. In these days of Westeros, yes, the symbols and the imagery of the past is simply illusion, a sad attempt at appearsing as if nothing has changed. I don't think it changes the feel of the books at all. Secondly, a PrC doesn't confer new abilities just because you got a new cloak, anyone could be Whitecloak without having a Whitecloak PrC in their character description. the PrC is available to them because they have joined their ranks, and more importantly have commited to the necessary training to learn these specific skills. Nothing magical here.
Skade said:
On another thread someone suggested I check out Swashbuckling Adventures for class and feat templates. I did and there is a lot in the book that would be applicable to SoFaI. To start with, it has non magical Paladin, Ranger and Bard classes; Assassins as a class rather than PrC; and various other details and changes that would be very helpful. The downside is that the setting also presumes gun powder which is not helpful.
Skade
Explorer
I was a little disapointed by Swashbuckling adventures, myself. It was the crunchiest book I have ever seen. There are some nice PrC and optional rules though.
The Bloody Mummers were great. I don't know if I would dare call them bards though. they just liked the costumes.
and people wonder why mimes scare me.
The Bloody Mummers were great. I don't know if I would dare call them bards though. they just liked the costumes.
and people wonder why mimes scare me.
Brudewollen
First Post
The Mummers were among my favorites in the books. I think they did have one Bard/Fool who followed them around - that lunatic who I think made up the the song about the weasel soup and who ran up and kissed Jamie on the top of his head when, in a weakened state, he picked up a sword and was trying to fight.
There were so many freaks in the band - Septon Utt was among my favorites too, "The boys, oh the boys - forgive me, forgive me!" **shiver**
Speaking of fools, what would you consider Patchface? Probably a bard, who after his ordeal at sea, somehow obtained some levels as a Divination specialists (to go with his madness)! That's assuming you'd even bother to give him classes like that and not treat him as more of a plot device.
There were so many freaks in the band - Septon Utt was among my favorites too, "The boys, oh the boys - forgive me, forgive me!" **shiver**
Speaking of fools, what would you consider Patchface? Probably a bard, who after his ordeal at sea, somehow obtained some levels as a Divination specialists (to go with his madness)! That's assuming you'd even bother to give him classes like that and not treat him as more of a plot device.
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