"Hit" & "Effect" timing of powers

mysticknight232 · Apr 22, 2010

I was rooting around in the PHB1 and couldn't come up with a clear answer to the timing of a powers affects. I will use the Radiant First PP encounter power Divine Sun lvl 11 as an example. it says:

Hit: 3d6 + dex radiant dmg, and the target gains vulnerable 5 radiant until the end of your next turn.

since this power deals radiant dmg, does it deal an additional +5 dmg because the power grants vulnerable 5 radiant? does the dmg go off first followed by the vulnerability meaning myself or a party member would have to hit it again with a radiant attack after this power resolves to gain the +5 to dmg?

Similar question regarding effect. Does an effect resovle after the hit portion resolves?

thanks and happy hunting!

DracoSuave · Apr 22, 2010

mysticknight232 said:
I was rooting around in the PHB1 and couldn't come up with a clear answer to the timing of a powers affects. I will use the Radiant First PP encounter power Divine Sun lvl 11 as an example. it says:

Hit: 3d6 + dex radiant dmg, and the target gains vulnerable 5 radiant until the end of your next turn.

since this power deals radiant dmg, does it deal an additional +5 dmg because the power grants vulnerable 5 radiant? does the dmg go off first followed by the vulnerability meaning myself or a party member would have to hit it again with a radiant attack after this power resolves to gain the +5 to dmg?

Similar question regarding effect. Does an effect resovle after the hit portion resolves?

thanks and happy hunting!

You do things in the order presented unless it's obvious you do not.

In this case, the damage is before the vulnerable 5, so the damage occurs first.

As for effect vs hit, it depends entirely on the order presented in the power.

If the effect is written first, you do it first. It may even be written before the Hit entry. If the effect is written last, you do it last.

There are exceptions, a few effect lines that occur during the hit, but they tell you when that occurs.

LightPhoenix · Apr 22, 2010

The vulnerability does not apply to the attack; damage and other hit stuff happens all at the same time. There is no order of operations within the Hit line.

As for Effect/Hit, it depends on how it is listed in the power. If the Effect line comes first, it happens first. If the Hit line comes first, then that happens first.

AbdulAlhazred · Apr 22, 2010

LightPhoenix said:
The vulnerability does not apply to the attack; damage and other hit stuff happens all at the same time. There is no order of operations within the Hit line.

Actually, PHB p269 illustrates that there is some sort of process, and there are a few reasons why it seems resolving effects comes last. For one thing step 5 is 'resolve damage and apply effects' and for another there are effects that can themselves involve taking other actions etc and resolving those before damage is dealt is at best quite messy and at worst can lead to some unresolvable situations (chargebarians are good at creating these).

I think the safest answer is really as DS says, things go in the order presented, even within the hit line, unless that will create some issue, in which case the power is probably not well written.

A lot of the time its worth checking out the DDI Compendium on these cases too. They are often ones that are reworded slightly there, which can often clarify things a bit.

DracoSuave · Apr 22, 2010

AbdulAlhazred said:
Actually, PHB p269 illustrates that there is some sort of process, and there are a few reasons why it seems resolving effects comes last. For one thing step 5 is 'resolve damage and apply effects' and for another there are effects that can themselves involve taking other actions etc and resolving those before damage is dealt is at best quite messy and at worst can lead to some unresolvable situations (chargebarians are good at creating these)..

"resolve damage and apply effects" is the same step. Implying the same time.

However, PHB2 is where the 'do stuff in order' is explicitly written out.

LightPhoenix · Apr 23, 2010

PHB2 says that in relation to lines (hit, secondary attack, effect, etc), but not with regards to what happens within a line.

In the end, it feels pedantic arguing about how to read within a line though. I don't think it would ever really make a difference. In every case I can think of, damage is always listed first, then other stuff (prone, vulnerable, so forth).

DracoSuave · Apr 23, 2010

LightPhoenix said:
In the end, it feels pedantic arguing about how to read within a line though. I don't think it would ever really make a difference. In every case I can think of, damage is always listed first, then other stuff (prone, vulnerable, so forth).

Yeah it really does.

There's a certain point where high levels of rules precision have completely missed the point; generally players try to use it to do something rediculous.

D&D is NOT magic the gathering. 'The DM says so' is good enough rules precision for most cases.

"Hit" & "Effect" timing of powers

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