Skill Combat - quick combat resolution

This is the quick combat system I playtested on Thursday night. It looks like we got the PC's hit points wrong when we played through it! Anyway, it worked.

Any thoughts?


Goal: just like all the other quick combat variants I've been trying, this is to make combat resolve in a flash.

Step I. Make Contact

• 1. Encounter Distance
  In a situation where the encounter distance is unknown, roll on the
  following table to determine how far apart the groups are:
  Code:

  Terrain Type		Distance in Squares
  Dungeon			4d6 
  Plains			1d10x10
  Hills/Moor/Mountains	3d10
  Forest/Swamp		3d8
  Road			1d20+10

• 2. Surprise
  If one or both groups are unaware of the other, there is a chance for
  surprise. If both sides are aware of each other, both sides may act in
  the first round.
  • a. Ambush
    A side trying to ambush rolls Stealth vs. the Passive Perception
    of the other side. The character with the lowest Stealth
    modifier makes the roll; others may Aid if they take an
    appropriate action. This can result in both sides gaining
    Surprise.
  • b. Lookout
    A side that is actively keeping watch may roll Perception.
    There is only one roll; others may aid. The character who rolls
    is the one who is taking the most appropriate action.
  • c. Surprised
    Characters who are Surprised may not act in the first round.
    They grant Combat Advantage.
  • d. Character Surprise (Optional)
    You may wish to determine Surprise for each character
    individually.
• 3. Reaction Roll
  If the monster's disposition to the PCs is unknown, roll on the
  following table to determine their reaction.
  Code:

  2d6 Roll	Reaction					Success
  2		Immediate Attack				--
  3-5		Hostile, possible attack			8
  6-8		Uncertain, monster confused			6
  9-11		No attack, monster leaves or considers offers	4
  12		Looking to make friends				2

• 4. Negotiation
  If the two sides talk it out, run a skill challenge. The number of
  successes needed before 3 failures is determined by the reaction roll.

Step 2. Beginning of Round
- Any beginning of round things take place here; standing in a zone, for
example.

Step 3. Declare Actions
- Everyone declares at the same time
- Free & Clear; only until everyone's happy with their action do you
proceed. Players may change their action depending on what the other
side has declared.
- If you can do it, you can do it, but you need to declare it. This
includes declaring any immediate actions or triggered actions, such
as OAs, a Fighter's Combat Challenge, a Shield spell, etc. If you
don't declare it as part of your action you don't do it; you can't
add an action, no matter its type, later on in the round.
- You can't wait to see what happens in the round - no delaying actions.
You have to take your chances with the roll.

Step 4. Determine Modifiers
- Add modifiers to the d20 roll based on the description of the action.
- If a power is to be used, which power is determined now.

Step 5. DM sets DCs
- Same process as is used in skill checks.

Step 6. Take Action
- Everyone rolls at once.
- Actions are simultaneous, there are no turn-by-turn actions.
- Actions are resolved in order from highest to lowest modified roll, if
it matters
- If two or more rolls are tied, determined resolution order by rolling
Init.
- When one action has multiple targets, the first roll determines the
order. When your action goes off, roll the rest of them. This goes
for things like OAs and other triggered actions like that.

Step 7. Resolve Actions
- Skill checks are resolved in the usual manner
- Damage/Hit Points:
Step 8. End of Round
- Morale checks, if necessary. A Will roll against an Easy DC of the
party's level. Can be triggered by actions taking during the round,
as well as those listed here.
If the morale check is failed, the monsters change their tactics -
running, surrendering, attempting a parley, bribe, blowing limited
resources, falling back, etc.
- Saving Throws from effects ongoing from the beginning of the round.
If a saving throw was granted during the round, or a monster can make
an immediate saving throw (eg. hobgoblins), they can do that now.

Step 9. Repeat Steps 2-8

Step 10. Shake it Out
- Actual hit point damage is determined
- Round all damage into healing surge amounts, rounding up
(eg. A fighter with 10 hits/28 HP takes 2 damage; that's 1 healing
surge, or 7 HP.)

Interesting! Could you provide a short example? Not sure I quite understand what you mean in #7.

Sure. Here is a quick example I wrote up while testing it out. I didn't do encounter distance or a reaction roll.

Encounter: a rogue and fighter are fighting a hobgoblin soldier.

2. start of round
3. declare actions
fighter: "I slash at him, at his weapon arm, up high while bringing up my shield to knock him back, forcing his guard up."
rogue: "I slip around behind him and my stilleto finds its way through an exposed gap in his armour."
hobgoblin: "He moves to the side, crashing shields with the fighter while keeping both of you in front of him, and he swings his flail at the fighter's leg hoping to give him a charly horse."
fighter: "In that case, I'll push him into the rogue, forcing him into the rogue's dagger. Oh yeah, and I focus all my concentration on him so if he even tries to move I'll stab him. The other stuff is the same - swing up high, shield up high, force his guard up high."
4. mods
fighter rolls tide of iron
rogue rolls deft strike, +2 for flankage
hobgoblin rolls flail.
5. DCs
fighter rolls against AC
rogue rolls against Ref
hobgoblin rolls against AC
6. Take Action
fighter: 26
rogue: 17
hobgoblin: 17
(rogue and hobgoblin roll init to determine who goes first and the rogue wins)
7. effects
fighter forces the hobgoblin back, gets his guard up high, deals 2 damage.
rogue stabs the hobbo, 2 damage +1 for sneak attack
hobgoblin strikes at the same time as the rogue kills him; he smacks the fighter in the leg, slowing him, dealing 2 damage.


Things to note:
In step 3 the fighter changes his declared action based on the hobgoblin's declared action. This is fine. He also makes sure to include his Mark and AO in his declared actions - otherwise they don't happen.

The fighter is trying to force the hobgoblin's guard up because his "encounter" power - Spinning Sweep - relies on him being able to get in under the hobgoblin's guard so he can sweep his legs out. Whenever that condition is met he can use that power. If he hits, the hobgoblin's guard is up, exposing his legs, and the fighter will be able to use Spinning Sweep.

In step 4 all modifiers are determined. The rogue gets +2 for flanking, because it's part of the description of his action. The fighter doesn't because the fighter isn't taking advantage of the flank. Even though the hobgoblin is trying to keep them both in front of him, the rogue still gets that bonus. It doesn't mean the rogue is actually flanking yet though.

(This is something I need to see more often in play to see if it works. The intent is to get players to engage with the fiction and describe actions that will provide bonuses.)

In step 6 everyone makes their rolls at the same time. The rogue and the hobgoblin tie the roll, so even though they both go at the same time they have to roll init to see if the rogue is able to flank the hobbo and be able to sneak attack.

Let me describe each case:
1. Rogue rolls higher: the rogue is able to flank. Doesn't mean he hits, though.
2. Hobbo rolls higher: the rogue doesn't flank; the hobbo is able to keep them both in front of him. Doesn't mean he hits or that the rogue misses.
3. They tie: we roll init to determine if the flanking goes down. The rogue wins so it does.

I probably need to explain this better in the text. The intent of the init roll is to determine conflicts like that, not so much "who goes first".

In step 7 the damage is really abstracted so that things resolve quickly. As a level 3 normal NPC the hobbo only has 4 "hits"; as level 1 PCs they do 2 damage on a "normal" attack (1[W] + good mod, basically) and the rogue gets an extra 1 damage for the sneak attack.

It's not supposed to be exactly the same as a normal fight - close is good enough. For example, in the playtest we ran through, the Infernal Pact Warlock was getting an extra 1 "hit" in temp HP for triggering his curse. A lot more that 3 HP, but whatever.

Because it's not exact, it's up to the players to decide when to use the normal combat system or this one.

Here is a longer example, one of the first ones I did.

Encounter. Um... a bunch of kobolds encounter the PCs along the road.

1. Make Contact
Both sides see each other coming; encounter distance on the road is 2d10 squares. The roll is 17. The PCs and kobolds see each other coming over a hill.

The DM rolls for the monster's reaction. 7 - uncertain. The kobolds are not sure what to make of the PCs. The DM decides they will stop and ask questions.

The kobolds ready their weapons and stop moving forward. The PCs ready their weapons and continue to move up. The kobolds say, "Stop! Who are you? What do you want?" The PCs respond: "We're looking for a goblin who killed one of our friends. Have you seen him? He's about yay tall, carries a big axe."

The DM calls for a roll. We move into skill check mode. The PC makes a bluff, but fails. The kobolds are startled. "Back off or we'll attack!"

The PCs don't.

2. Start of Round.

3. Declare actions.

The Fighter says, "I'm going to throw my sword into my shield hand, start running while I grab a javelin and toss it at the lead kobold, then move forward with my shield up."

The Rogue says, "I'm going to shoot my crossbow at the lead kobold, then grab a dagger and head into the woods off to the side, circling around towards them."

The Ranger says, "I'm going to feather arrow after arrow into the kobold in the back - the one with all the totems and stuff."

The DM says, "The kobolds are going to hide behind their shields while moving over the crest of the hill to gain cover."

Everyone's okay with this, so we move on.

4. Determine modifiers.

The fighter makes a basic attack. The DM awards a +2 bonus for the momentum of running forward.
The rogue makes a basic attack.
The ranger makes a twin strike.
The kobolds take defensive actions, rolling AC.

5. DM sets DCs

The PCs roll vs. the kobold's roll, since the kobold's action is defensive.

6. Take Action

Everyone rolls. The lead kobold succeeds, while the kobold in the back is only hit once.

7. Effects

The kobold in the back (a wyrmpriest) takes 2 hits - 1 damage for twin strike and 1 damage for quarry. He's bloodied.

8. End of round.

Morale check? Yeah - since one guy is bloodied, roll vs. average party level, easy DC, non-bloodied guys may aid automatically. The roll is Will, it's a success. The kobolds don't break.

Repeat.
2. Start of round.
3. Declare actions.

Fighter: "I charge up the hill, throwing my sword into my free hand, crashing into the kobolds with my shield, knocking any in my path to the ground."
Rogue: "I sneak around them, losing myself in the cover of the trees."
Ranger: "I feather arrows into the same kobold - thwip thwip - while moving forward."
Kobolds: "Kobolds are shifty - they slip out of the way of the fighter, opening him up for a breath of cold icy breath from the kobold with the totems."
Fighter: "In that case, I'm going to barrel right into the totem guy."
DM: "He's too far away for you to reach him."
Fighter: "Okay... I'll keep my sword in my shield hand, and when I get close to a kobold I'll grab him and throw him right into the path of the dragon breath!"
Kobolds: "Okay, the kobolds with spears will try to stab at you as you run past, setting up a flank; the one you're grabbing will set his spear for the charge, planting it into the ground; the totem kobold will still breathe on you."

Everyone's cool with that.

4. Determine mods.

Fighter rolls Str. The DM gives him a +1 bonus for charging.
Rogue rolls Born on the Street - he survived by sneaking around.
Ranger rolls twin strike.
Kobolds roll spear attacks with +2 for the flank and CA; the one set for the charge gets a +2 bonus; the wyrmpriest rolls his Dragon Breath.

5. DCs

Fighter rolls vs. Fort.
Rogue rolls vs. passive Per.
Ranger rolls vs. AC, with a +2 to AC for cover.
Kobolds roll vs. AC.
Wyrmpriest rolls vs. Fort.

6. Take Action

(f hits, rogue succeeds, ranger hits once, kobolds get two hits, both from the flanking guys with CA, wyrmpriest misses)

7. Effects

The fighter charges forward, taking two hits from the kobolds (3 damage from each hit - 2 + 1 for CA); they cut into his mail shirt and leave a trail of blood, grazing him. The fighter grabs the kobold by the neck (1 damage, improvised attack) as the little guy freaks out and makes an ineffective attack. He tosses the kobold at the wyrmpriest as he breathes a gout of icy cold. The kobold takes the worst of it (2 damage), but since the wyrmpriest does 1/2 damage on a miss, the fighter still takes some (1 damage). The wyrmpriest is hit by the kobold and the DM makes a snap judgement - the wyrmpriest falls down in a heap.

Meanwhile, the rogue hides in the trees and the ranger sends an arrow into the wyrmpriest's left eye (3 hits - he's dead).

8. End of round

Wyrmpriest is down, 1 other kobold is bloodied - let's say the leader down requires a Moderate check and the bloodied guy adds +2 to the DC. However, the fighter is bloodied so the DC is reduced by 2.

It's a failure, the kobolds change tactics. The DM decides they will bolt for it.

Let's skip to...

3. Declare actions

Fighter: "I put my knee on that guy on the ground and hold him there while the others run."
Rogue: "I shoot the legs out of the little guy if he makes it away from the fighter."
Ranger: "I do the same."
DM: "You can't see him; he's on the ground on the other side of the hill."
Ranger: "Well... I'll run to the top of the hill and then do the same thing."
Kobolds: "Run away... the guy lying on top of the dead dragon-breath-breathing kobold rolls to the side, away from the fighter, getting some distance before standing up."

4. Mods

Fighter rolls Str. +2 since the kobold's on the ground.
Rogue rolls a basic attack, +2 since he's hidden.
Ranger rolls a careful strike.
Kobold on the ground rolls Acrobatics.

5. DCs

Fighter rolls against Fort.
Rogue and Ranger roll against AC.
Kobold rolls against Init.

6. Take Action

f: 20
Rogue: lame
ranger: 19
Kobold: 19

7. Effects

Fighter puts his knee on the ground; the kobold tries to roll away but can't since the fighter's got him.

The other guys don't need to do anything since the kobold never got away.

8. End of round

The DM decides that the kobold will give up.

I like this system. I feel confident that it will help to keep everyone engaged in the story instead of just saying, "I used Twin Strike/Cleave/Inspiring Word." I think I'll try it out pretty soon, maybe even during our next fight which is against a solo. I don't want the fight to drag on all night, after all, but I do want it to be memorable.

One question: how do you convert the PCs hit points to "hits?" This will definelt come in to play if someone takes enough "hits" to go down, or if something triggers when bloodied.

Keenberg said:

One question: how do you convert the PCs hit points to "hits?" This will definelt come in to play if someone takes enough "hits" to go down, or if something triggers when bloodied.

Click to expand...

Poorly? You take the number of hit points the PC gets when they gain a level (4, 5, or 6+), look on the chart and match that up with their current level. Then you add 1/2 CON mod to that. If there are any feats or anything else that adds to HP, the DM is going to have to make a ruling. e.g. Toughness adds +1. I didn't go through all the options because that would take too long.

For example, you're a 1st level dwarf fighter with 16 Con. You get 6 HP per level, so you check out the chart - 10 hits. Add 1/2 your con mod, so another +1. Total = 11 hits. This doesn't change until 4th level, when you need to look at the chart again; at that point it will be 16 (15 + 1 for Con).

Bloodied is 1/2 that value, like normal. Our 1st-level dwarf becomes bloodied when he has 5 hits remaining.

It might work better if I said 1 hit = 3 or 5 HP or something like that, but eh. That seems too fiddly for me. I went with this logic:

1 hit takes down an equal level minion
2 hits takes down an equal level normal NPC
4 hits takes down an equal level elite
10 hits takes down an equal level solo
Brutes get a bonus of +1, because they generally suck.

For PCs, the logic is somewhat different.
Low-HP classes can take 3 hits by an equal level opponent.
Med-HP classes can take 4 hits.
High-HP classes can take 5 hits.

It sounds tough on the players; as in a test of their player skill. It is almost like (A)DND 4e - you can use your powers, but you must create a coherant narative. I wounder does it punish martial characters a little, as the wizard just makes magic happen.

My thoughts aren't a criticism, I really like the system. Not sure I could swing with with my team.

How did it play out for you? Did the players engage? How long did the combat last? Was the combat more exciting?

It actually seems like it might be tiring on the group in RL, almost like real combat. I could imagine needing to put my feet up beside, a fire at a local tavern, with a mug of ale after a fight or two, to unwind.

It was fun, exciting and gripping, though it took longer than I hoped. Each round's resolution rolled by in a flash when we actually got to rolling dice; the "declare action" phase took some time since the sole player wasn't familiar with 4E at all and had three PCs to deal with.

More playtesting is definitely needed and the kinks and the bugs need to be worked out but I think (hope!) that the basic idea behind it is sound.

I expect the "declare action" phase will be long, and the more combatants, the longer it will be.

I expect lots of fatalities early in combats because there's a very low barrier to monsters attacking squishy targets AND there's a decent likelyhood that a queue of attackers will all hit, not only incapacitating their target, but also effectively CDGing them to death. You might want to add in some sort of "you can refrain from making an attack during the resolution phase" to avoid that. I wouldn't allow the attack to be redirected, because as is the threat of a wasted attack actually reduces the chance that someone will get dogpiled and go down quickly, which IMO is a good thing.

In general, I expect that the system will unevenly reward competitive players among a narrativist group.

If the DM and 1 or more players are competitive, then the declaration phase could go for a very, very long time indeed because it's effectively a negotiation without any real limitations.

In such a group I expect that OAs will go through the roof, because you can almost always narrate your way into getting one. I expect any other movement punishing power will end up the same.

I fully expect any fighter who wants will end up getting 3 attacks each round (Regular, OA, combat challenge) and thus will become the premier striker.

I doubt that the system will impact boring "I attack with power X" players at all: they'll still make the same declaration. In fact it will become easier to do so, because there will be reduced tactical elements to force them to alter strategy. The only thing that stops the examples devolving into every character saying "I hit it with my X" is that they and the DM don't want it to.

I think it's a cool system that could work quite well in a group who don't have any interest in gaming it, and will quicken combat in such a scenario. As written it will make for slightly more dangerous combats. As soon as you have a single non-narrativist combatant, it's likely to hit issues.

Saeviomagy said:

I expect the "declare action" phase will be long, and the more combatants, the longer it will be.

Click to expand...

Yup.

Saeviomagy said:

I expect lots of fatalities early in combats because there's a very low barrier to monsters attacking squishy targets AND there's a decent likelyhood that a queue of attackers will all hit, not only incapacitating their target, but also effectively CDGing them to death.

Click to expand...

I imagine that will happen if you don't take steps to prevent it.

Saeviomagy said:

In general, I expect that the system will unevenly reward competitive players among a narrativist group.

If the DM and 1 or more players are competitive, then the declaration phase could go for a very, very long time indeed because it's effectively a negotiation without any real limitations.

Click to expand...

I want it to reward players unevenly, so that's good. I'm not so sure that it will take a very, very long time to declare actions; it's possible, I guess, but I don't see it going back and forth that often.

Do you have an example of a situation that could turn out like that?

Saeviomagy said:

In such a group I expect that OAs will go through the roof, because you can almost always narrate your way into getting one. I expect any other movement punishing power will end up the same.

I fully expect any fighter who wants will end up getting 3 attacks each round (Regular, OA, combat challenge) and thus will become the premier striker.

Click to expand...

You can't do what you can't do. If you're a Fighter it doesn't matter how you describe your action, if the hobgoblin fighting you doesn't move and doesn't hit someone else, you're not getting an OA or your Combat Challenge.

Saeviomagy said:

I doubt that the system will impact boring "I attack with power X" players at all: they'll still make the same declaration. In fact it will become easier to do so, because there will be reduced tactical elements to force them to alter strategy. The only thing that stops the examples devolving into every character saying "I hit it with my X" is that they and the DM don't want it to.

Click to expand...

If that happens, the PCs will get dogpiled and killed, just like you said!

In the first example (rogue and fighter vs. hobgoblin), the rogue saying "I hit it with my dagger" would have missed, since that's an attack against AC instead of Ref, and he wouldn't have had the +2 for flanking. What's more, the rogue can't say, "I flank him and use Deft Strike" because "Deft Strike" doesn't mean anything. No one can respond to "Deft Strike" the way they can respond to "I stab him with my stiletto through a weak point in his armour".