Full Round action vs casting time of one round.

Sinjin the Rogue · Oct 15, 2002

A friend of mine are having a disagreement. He wants to use the metamagic feat "Heighten Spell" in order to cast Polymorph other as a 5th level spell. He is a sorcerer. According to the Player's Handbook and the SRD:

"Some spellcasters choose spells as they cast them. They can choose when they cast their spells whether to use metamagic feats to improve them. As with other spellcasters, the improved spell uses up a higher-level spell slot. If its normal casting time is 1 action, casting a metamagic spell is a full-round action for a spellcaster that chooses spells as they cast them."

Looking at this, it is my opinion that, since the casting time is now a full round action for a heightened spell, the spell effect would not take place until the start of the Sorcerer's next turn, because, again according to the Player's Handbook:

"A spell that takes 1 full round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of the character's turn in the round after the character began casting the spell. The character then acts normally after the spell is completed."

The way I see it, a spell that takes a full round action is the same thing as a spell with a casting time of onr round.

My friend disagrees. He contends that a spell with a casting time of one round is not necessarily the same thing as a spell that requires a full round action to cast. His reasoning is that in the PHB Glossary, the definition of a full round action is:

"Full-Round actions consume all of a character's effort during a round. The only movement possible in conjunction with a full round action is a five foot step, which can occur before, during or after the action."

Thus, if a character can take a 5 foot step after the full round action, then it seems that a full round action can be completed on the same turn.

However, there are no spells in the PHB that have a casting time of a "full round action". Casting times are generally 1 action, 1 round or longer. All spells that require a round to cast require a full round action.

Anyone know of errata or sage advice on this one/

Oni · Oct 15, 2002

I'm going to be lazy and not provide any references, but it works like this.

If you meta-magic a spell, so that it becomes a full round action then it happens on your initiative count, but the only other action you can take is to make a 5ft step. As opposed to a one full round casting time such as summon monster which takes place at the beginning your your initiative count, one round later.

0-hr · Oct 15, 2002

And I'll be even lazyer and just second Oni's opinion. That is, indeed, the way it works. Strange, but true.

Pax · Oct 15, 2002

To go a bit further than Oni: if the intent was to make the spell into a full-round casting time, they would have said as much, in as many words.

Instead, they state it only as "a full-round action", instead of a standard action, or "1 round casting time". Which, yes, means you simply get to move only 5 feet, but, the spell goes off at your initiative still. Picture it as the spellcasting equivalent to a full attack action.

Now ... I've played sorcerors pretty extensively in the past 2+ years. And I have to say ... if a sorceror using a metamagic means the spell has a 1-round casting time ... no sorceror in his right mind will make much use of metamagicks, period.

However, as a full-round-action, still-happens-at-my-initiative ... it's a fair cost. Remember, the sorceror or bard is still paying the extra levels for the metamagic. Coupled with the narrower selection of spells known, and the loss of tactical maneuverability during the round ametamagicked spell is cast ... a fair price is paid for the supreme flexibility of cast-and-meta-on-the-fly.

Cast and step 5 feet, or, step 5 feet and cast. Either one works, but the spell should be complete on the characters rolled initiative, on the same round. Otherwise, some spells become POINTLESS to metamagick.

For example, "Empower Fireball" ... enemy spellcaster makes spellcraft roll to identify the spell (along with it's target point, ofc) and yells "scatter, boys!" ... and the end result is a wasted spell. Why then would a sorceror or bard really want to bother expending a feat on the Empower Spell metamagick?

Answer: they wouldn't. Ever.

Crothian · Oct 15, 2002

Ya, they all got it right. Good job Men!!

Spatzimaus · Oct 15, 2002

Oni (and your player) are right.

Metamagicked Sorcerer spells are cast as a full-round action, which is NOT the same as a "1 round" casting time. It's treated like a Full Attack; if you do one, all you can do is the 5' step.

It's still not as good as a 1-action casting time, but it's much better than the "1 round" casting time spells (which, IMHO, are practically useless in combat, too easy to interrupt.)

There's a bit of strangeness if you use Haste spells, too, supposedly (i.e. cast it with the 2 partial actions, which lets you do one move) or if you start it with a partial on one turn and finish it on the next, but I'm not sure whether that's official, Sage, or ENboard.

phillipjp · Oct 15, 2002

Well, I'm the player in question. I think your confusion comes from the line in the PHB that says:

A spell that takes 1 full round to cast is a full-round action.

However, the reverse is not true (as in the case of spontaneous metamagic). Using a full-round action to cast does not necessarily take a full round. (Kind of a like a car is an automobile, but not all automobiles are cars.)

Spells with a casting time of one round (like in summoning spells) are full-round actions *AND* the spell takes affect just before your turn on the next round.