NEW (AGAIN)- Thunderspire Labyrinth- Stat analysis #25 Shrine to Baphomet

Apparently a lot of people have had a tough time with that Irontooth encounter. I've never run or played it myself.

Our DM was left fuming when Irontooth did his big combat move and failed to connect, however if it had the end result of the battle may well have changed.

We're getting to Irontooth, slowly but surely, and he leaves his mark on the PCs.

H1 Keep on the Shadowfell
Encounter #3 A2 Kobold Lair, Outside (snappy title).

Round.#3

Winstanley- Stealth 24- not spotted. Sly Flourish with Combat Advantage KSk; Hit 17 damage- DEAD.

KD- Shift back into Magic Circle. Shortsword (with Magic Circle bonus) Dirty; Hit 5 damage (22 HP).

KSg- Sling Glue Pot Kaspard; Hit 5 damage (21 HP) & Immobilised.

Dirty- Spinning Sweep KD; Miss. KD Marked. Save vs Immobilised- Success.

Grey- Shift back. Magic Missile KSg; Miss.

KM1- DEAD.

KM2- DEAD.

KM3- DEAD.

KM4- DEAD.

KM5- DEAD.

KM6- DEAD.

KM7- Shift. Spear Grey; Hit 4 damage (19 HP).

KM8- DEAD.

KM9- DEAD.

KM10- DEAD.

KSk- DEAD

McGyver- Move. Charge KSg; Hit 7 damage (6 HP bloodied).

Kaspard- Lance of Faith KSg; Hit 5 Radiant damage (1 HP bloodied). Save vs Immobilised- Success.

Time to play 6 minutes.

End of Round-

Good Guys
McGyver, Male Dragonborn Paladin of Bahamut 1 (HP27/27)
Dirty Biskit, Male Dwarven Fighter 1 (HP22/31)
Kaspard, Female Half-Elf Cleric of Bahamut 1 (HP21/26)
Winstanley Portico, Male Halfling Rogue 1 (HP25/25)
Grey Morlock, Male Human Wizard 1 (HP19/23)

Bad Guys 575XP Level 1 Encounter.
Kobold Minion Level 1 Minion [KM] (x10) (HP1) 9 DEAD
Kobold Slink Level 1 Lurker [KSk] (HP24) DEAD
Kobold Slinger Level 1 Artillery [KSg] (HP1/24)
Kobold Dragonshield Level 2 Soldier [KD] (HP20/36)

Action Points 0 Total 0
Daily Powers 0 Total 0
Healing Surges 0 Total 1
2nd Winds 0 Total 0
Crits 0 Total 0

Comment: The war of attrition is coming to an end, in many ways this encounter is the easiest the PCs have faced so far. It doesn't help that the dice are seemingly against me. I allowed Winstanley to remain unspotted because he was rolling high on his Stealth checks and my Perception checks were truly awful.

This is great stuff -- thanks for posting it!

Thanlis said:

This is great stuff -- thanks for posting it!

Click to expand...

Not a problem... Here comes bit the next, the final round of the third combat encounter, with a little more analysis.

After this it's Irontooth, and things get nastier.

H1 Keep on the Shadowfell
Encounter #3 A2 Kobold Lair, Outside (snappy title).

Round.#4

Winstanley- Move out of the trees. Sly Flourish with Combat Advantage KD; Hit 18 damage (2 HP bloodied).

KD- Flee for waterfall. AoO Winstanley Dagger; Hit 2 damage- DEAD.

KSg- Flee for waterfall. AoO McGyver Longsword Hit 10 damage- DEAD.

Dirty- Charge KM7; Miss. KM7 Marked.

Grey- Shift back. Ray of Frost KM7; Hit 7 Cold damage- DEAD.

Time to play 5 minutes.
Total time to play 37 minutes.

End of Combat-

Good Guys
McGyver, Male Dragonborn Paladin of Bahamut 1 (HP27/27)
Dirty Biskit, Male Dwarven Fighter 1 (HP22/31)
Kaspard, Female Half-Elf Cleric of Bahamut 1 (HP21/26)
Winstanley Portico, Male Halfling Rogue 1 (HP25/25)
Grey Morlock, Male Human Wizard 1 (HP19/23)

Bad Guys 575XP Level 1 Encounter.
Kobold Minion Level 1 Minion [KM] (x10) (HP1) 10 DEAD
Kobold Slink Level 1 Lurker [KSk] (HP24) DEAD
Kobold Slinger Level 1 Artillery [KSg] (HP24) DEAD
Kobold Dragonshield Level 2 Soldier [KD] (HP36) DEAD

Action Points 0 Total 0
Daily Powers 0 Total 0
Healing Surges 0 Total 1
2nd Winds 0 Total 0
Crits 0 Total 0

Comment: To be honest I didn't really want to have the Kobolds flee and warn their fellows inside the lair, I've DM'ed KOTS three times previously and there's a TPK inside the lair if the dice go against the players- or for me for that matter. This encounter then proved nothing more than a mild inconvenience- witness the fact that only one Healing Surge was spent by the PCs. Still their Kobold mission isn't over until Irontooth sings, as it were.

Stats: A walk over for the PCs, the monsters managed to connect with their attacks just 35.71% of the time, that's five hits (from 14) for the entire encounter, for a total of... wait for it, 33 hit points damage all told. Which is made to long even more ridiculous when compared to Winstanley- the Halfling Rogue who managed a 100% hit rate, six from six, and did 80 hit points damage on his own.

The PCs hit with 62.5% of their attacks overall, hindered by Dirty who only hit twice in six attacks (33.33%), and only dished out 16 points of damage, still four more than Kaspard. McGyver and Kaspard also emerged from the fracas entirely unscathed, as I say a walk over.

Stats so far: Well three combat encounters down and the PCs have ripped their way through the bad guys, only McGyver has seen the wrong side of 0 hit points. The PCs are hitting 65.85% of the time overall while the monsters are resting on their laurels at 57.78% hit rate. That wouldn't be so bad if the monsters were making more attacks- 45 as opposed to the PCs 82. Winstanley is still Striker supreme with a 92.86% hit rate- he's missed one attack roll in three combats, fourteen turns in total- remind me to check his d20. At the other end of the spectrum is Dirty, who has dropped below Kapspard even, with a 50% hit rate. It needs stating that the PCs are still doing a huge chunk of damage- 39.86 hit points on average per turn, this compared to the monsters measly 11.29 hit points.

Turns one and two of the combat are also still the most productive for the PCs with 59 and 57.33 hit points of damage done, on average; they're also the longest turns to play out at 11.67 and 8.33 minutes respectively. It seems the PCs are content to dash out their encounter powers, first strikes and perhaps charges, then see how the land lies after the monsters have weathered the initial onslaught.

The three combats have all been fairly straightforward, by which I mean not end-of-level-bad-guys (or similar), and none have been set in difficult terrain, there's nothing slowing the PCs down, only the fact that they are new to the game. The average time taken for a combat encounter is 35.67 minutes, or 4.67 turns, however that may all end very soon.

For those who are unfamiliar with Keep on the Shadowfell the next encounter, the Kobold Lair, with Irontooth within, has a reputation, it's ripe for a TPK. It's an encounter level 6 and is home to a whole host of dangerous critters, the worst of which is old Irontooth himself. In my first game of 4e I TPK'ed a party here, which lead to all manner of fallout and ructions- three of the aforementioned party, all multi-edition D&D players, have never been back to 4e, they'd also never been TPK'ed before- it was a shocking moment for them. As my brother said at the time, he was one of the party members- 'I don't play that sort of game', I guess we all come to D&D for a myriad reasons- my brother, particularly, is a roleplayer first and foremost. He's still in a Lankhmar campaign that famously once went a year- 12 sessions without anyone getting into a fight. That's probably not a record out there in ENWorld but it is for us. Anyway, inside the Kobold lair lies death and destruction, I guarantee it, the big question is for whom?

And before there's a sniff of an edition war, I've played every edition of D&D, and 4e has no less roleplaying opportunites than any other, the combat is more structured/mechanical (IMHO), but for teaching the game to noobs (IMHO- always with the caveats) it makes it way easier.

After initially disliking the edition I find myself enamoured once more, anyway- Irontooth and the Kobold lair, let the nastiness begin...

H1 Keep on the Shadowfell
Encounter #4 A3 Kobold Lair, Inside (do you see what WOTC did there).

Winstanley enters Sneak mode gets a couple of good rolls and ducks in and out of the waterfall successfully spotting the front line- Kobolds within, and plenty of them, from what the Rogue Halfling can see a scattering of Minions and at least two Skirmishers. The PCs opt for plan 'A'- which is a charge and the surprise attack. I line the PCs up on the edge of the map and warn them to do their worst. Little do they know...



Good Guys
McGyver, Male Dragonborn Paladin of Bahamut 1 (HP27)
Dirty Biskit, Male Dwarven Fighter 1 (HP31)
Kaspard, Female Half-Elf Cleric of Bahamut 1 (HP26)
Winstanley Portico, Male Halfling Rogue 1 (HP25)
Grey Morlock, Male Human Wizard 1 (HP23)

Bad Guys 1250XP Level 6 Encounter.
Kobold Minion Level 1 Minion [KM] (x10) (HP1)
Kobold Skirmisher Level 1 Skirmisher [KS] (x3) (HP27)
Kobold Denwarden Level 2 Soldier [KD] (x2) (HP36)
Kobold Wyrmpriest Level 3 Artillery [KW] (HP36)
Irontooth the Goblin Level 3 Elite Brute [Irontooth] (HP106)

Initiative 22 Grey; 18 Kobold Denwardens & Dirty; 14 Winstanley; 13 Kobold Minions & McGyver; 10 Kobold Wyrmpriest & Irontooth; 6 Kobold Skirmishers; 2 Kaspard

Surprise Round.

Grey- Burning Hands KM1-5; Hit KM1-2 & 4-5 for 11 Fire damage each- all four DEAD.

Dirty- Charge KS2; Hit 10 damage (17 HP). KS2 Marked.

Winstanley- First Strike Combat Advantage Deft Strike KS3; Hit 16 damage (11 HP bloodied).

McGyver- Charge KM6; Miss.

Kaspard- Sacred Flame KM3; Hit 8 Radiant damage- DEAD & 3 Temp HP McGyver.

Time to play 7 minutes including setting up map and minis.

End of Round-

Good Guys
McGyver, Male Dragonborn Paladin of Bahamut 1 (HP27/27)
Dirty Biskit, Male Dwarven Fighter 1 (HP31/31)
Kaspard, Female Half-Elf Cleric of Bahamut 1 (HP26/26)
Winstanley Portico, Male Halfling Rogue 1 (HP25/25)
Grey Morlock, Male Human Wizard 1 (HP23/23)

Bad Guys 1250XP Level 6 Encounter.
Kobold Minion Level 1 Minion [KM] (x10) (HP1) 5 DEAD
Kobold Skirmisher Level 1 Skirmisher [KS] (x3) (HP27/27 & 17/27 & 11/27)
Kobold Denwarden Level 2 Soldier [KD] (x2) (HP36)
Kobold Wyrmpriest Level 3 Artillery [KW] (HP36)
Irontooth the Goblin Level 3 Elite Brute [Irontooth] (HP106)

Action Points 0 Total 0
Daily Powers 0 Total 0
Healing Surges 0 Total 0
2nd Winds 0 Total 0
Crits 0 Total 0

Comment: More Minions- the four dead in the Burning Hands almost resulted in a round of applause for the Mage. In the back of my mind though- Irontooth, don't get carried away people, it's going to get a whole lot tougher. That said the PCs at the end of the surprise round are grinning like chimps, which is never a bad thing, five Kobold Minions dead and one Kobold Skirmisher bloodied, another wounded- it's going to be easy. Mwah-hah-hah etc.

Forgot the map yesterday, rectified- see above.

H1 Keep on the Shadowfell
Encounter #4 A3 Kobold Lair, Inside (do you see what WOTC did there).

Round #1

Grey- Move. Scorching Burst KM6&9 & KS1; Hit KM6&9 6 Fire damage each- both DEAD.

KD1- Hold till Round 3, supposedly.

KD2- Hold till Round 3, supposedly.

Dirty- Reaping Strike KS3; Hit 12 damage- DEAD. Move. Shouts 'there are more...'

Winstanley- Deft Strike Combat Advantage KS2; Hit 13 damage (4 HP bloodied).

KM1- DEAD.

KM2- DEAD.

KM3- DEAD.

KM4- DEAD.

KM5- DEAD.

KM6- DEAD.

KM7- Charge Winstanley; Miss.

KM8- Move. Combat Advantage Spear Dirty; Hit 4 damage (27 HP)

KM9- DEAD.

KM10- Move. Charge McGyver; Miss.

McGyver- Valiant Strike KM10; Hit 12 damage- DEAD. Move to KS1. Divine Challenge KS1. Action Point. Radiant Smite KS1; Hit 16 Radiant damage (11 HP bloodied).

KW- Hold till Round 3, supposedly.

Irontooth- Hold till Round 3, supposedly.

KS1- Spear McGyver; Miss. Shift back. Screams a lot.

KS2- Spear Combat Advantage Dirty; Hit 8 damage (19 HP).

KS3- DEAD.

Kaspard- Move to McGyver. Lance of Faith KS1; Miss.

Time to play 9 minutes.

End of Round-

Good Guys
McGyver, Male Dragonborn Paladin of Bahamut 1 (HP27/27)
Dirty Biskit, Male Dwarven Fighter 1 (HP19/31)
Kaspard, Female Half-Elf Cleric of Bahamut 1 (HP26/26)
Winstanley Portico, Male Halfling Rogue 1 (HP25/25)
Grey Morlock, Male Human Wizard 1 (HP23/23)

Bad Guys 1250XP Level 6 Encounter.
Kobold Minion Level 1 Minion [KM] (x10) (HP1) 8 DEAD
Kobold Skirmisher Level 1 Skirmisher [KS] (x3) (HP11/27 & 4/27) 1 DEAD
Kobold Denwarden Level 2 Soldier [KD] (x2) (HP36)
Kobold Wyrmpriest Level 3 Artillery [KW] (HP36)
Irontooth the Goblin Level 3 Elite Brute [Irontooth] (HP106)

Action Points 1 Total 1
Daily Powers 0 Total 0
Healing Surges 0 Total 0
2nd Winds 0 Total 0
Crits 0 Total 0

Comment: Here's the dilemma, I'm running out of Kobolds and if the map holds true there's no reason why the other Kobolds (Wyrmpriest & Denwardens)- which should be held in reserve, according to the module until round three, anyway there's no reason why they shouldn't join the fight. Perhaps the Wyrmpriest, Denwardens and Irontooth have their headphones on, or are concentrating on doing a particularly difficult jigsaw... here they come.

Irontooth and the others are placed in position on the map, a brief description of each is given to the players, whose eyes light up when I describe the 'crazy-eyed, bandy-legged and heavily muscled' Goblin.

The PCs are still grinning.

H1 Keep on the Shadowfell
Encounter #4 A3 Kobold Lair, Inside (do you see what WOTC did there).

Round #2

Grey- Move. Magic Missile KS2; Hit 11 damage- DEAD.

KD1- Move. Spear McGyver; Hit 9 damage (21 HP). Shift.

KD2- Move. Spear McGyver; Miss. Shift.

Dirty- Cleave KM8; Miss. KM8 Marked. Move AoO KM8; Miss. 2nd Wind (26 HP). Action Point. Charge Irontooth; Hit 15 damage (91 HP). Irontooth Marked.

Winstanley- Sly Flourish KM7; Hit 9 damage- DEAD. Move to KM8.

KM1- DEAD.

KM2- DEAD.

KM3- DEAD.

KM4- DEAD.

KM5- DEAD.

KM6- DEAD.

KM7- DEAD.

KM8- Spear Winstanley; Miss.

KM9- DEAD.

KM10- DEAD.

McGyver- Dragon Breath KD1-2 & KS1; Hit KD1-2 7 Fire damage each (29 HP each). Shift in to the thick of it. Valiant Strike KS1; Hit 8 damage (3 HP). Action Point. Valiant Strike KS1; Hit 12 damage- DEAD.

KW- Move. Incite Faith- all Kobolds still standing gain 5 Temp HP. Acid Orb Grey; Hit 8 Acid damage (15 HP).

Irontooth- Battleaxe Dirty; Hit 11 damage (15 HP bloodied).

KS1- DEAD.

KS2- DEAD.

KS3- DEAD.

Kaspard- Sacred Flame KD2; Hit 6 Radiant damage (23 HP) & 3 Temp HP McGyver. Move off towards Dirty.

Time to play 10 minutes.

End of Round-

Good Guys
McGyver, Male Dragonborn Paladin of Bahamut 1 (HP21/27)
Dirty Biskit, Male Dwarven Fighter 1 (HP15/31)
Kaspard, Female Half-Elf Cleric of Bahamut 1 (HP26/26)
Winstanley Portico, Male Halfling Rogue 1 (HP25/25)
Grey Morlock, Male Human Wizard 1 (HP15/23)

Bad Guys 1250XP Level 6 Encounter.
Kobold Minion Level 1 Minion [KM] (x10) (HP1) 9 DEAD
Kobold Skirmisher Level 1 Skirmisher [KS] (x3) (HP27) 3 DEAD
Kobold Denwarden Level 2 Soldier [KD] (x2) (HP23/36 & 29/36)
Kobold Wyrmpriest Level 3 Artillery [KW] (HP36)
Irontooth the Goblin Level 3 Elite Brute [Iron] (HP91/106)

Action Points 2 Total 3
Daily Powers 0 Total 0
Healing Surges 0 Total 0
2nd Winds 1 Total 1
Crits 0 Total 0

Comment: Good that the PCs took the Skirmishers down, although will the use of two Action Points here cost them in the long run? Still no Daily Powers unleashed, and I've let it be known that this is the climax of todays adventure, which the PCs had guessed for themselves anyway.

Cool stuff.

McGyver action pointed twice in one encounter?

firesnakearies said:

Cool stuff.

McGyver action pointed twice in one encounter?

Click to expand...

Yeah, I house-ruled that one almost immediately, one/round only but PCs can use more than one Action Point per encounter.

I've probably DM'ed 15-20 scenarios/modules of various lengths in my 4E D&D career, all of them bought modules, the combat encounters quite often go- Level +1, Level, Level +2, Level then Level +4. The PCs tend not to have any trouble with upto Level +2 (or thereabouts). When it gets to Level +3 or Level +4, well that's where the TPKs started to happen, or else multiple PC deaths.

Even with the house-rule in place, in the last three months, I've killed one third of the PCs that have come my way, actually just less. Just had a look at my notes- 23 different PCs in various 4e games, 7 of them now deceased.

So multiple Action Points are okay.