(IR) Preparations for the IR - Page 3




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  1. #21
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    Ignore William Ronald
    Thanks, Edena! I feel that I should help where I can. (Mr. Draco, in my Greyhawk thread I asked someone to find some details on Kas. Hopefully someone has a story that can help add flavor to him. I don't know why he betrayed Vecna, but there has to be a good story behind it and the battle between him and his former lord.)

    I just e-mailed GnomeWorks. (I long ago developed a knack for finding things.) I would like everyone to contact people you are friendly with about the thread.

    Edena, Do you want the "Setting up for the IR closed"? If so, maybe you could do a "Recruitment Drive for the IR Thread."

    I contacted someone on these boards who would be a great addition to our thread. I hope he comes on board. (Edena, I mentioned him earlier.)

    Also, you might want to consider allowing people to play a hero-deity such as Murlynd or Heward. I would at least like to see Murlynd make an appearance even if its by you. (Murlynd walks into the Lortmils Confederacy's best gun shop and looks at he wares. Picking up a pistol, he declares "This is better than Smith & Wesson. How much?" For those who don't know, Murlynd is a quasi-deity who dresses like a cowboy, uses magical guns, and has some magical powers. He also is associated with Murlynd's Spoon, which has saved several of my characters from very bad meals.)

 

  • #22
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    Ignore LordMelkor{Talos}
    To Edena:

    Could you specify how much of Shade`s Empire power level is magical power? Also what is the cost of casting 10th and 11th level True Dweomers and what are in your opinion their limits?

    By the way Shade use life force of their slaves( mostly humanoids) to power Shadow Magic, especially Dweomers, their souls are also reward for our Planar Allies, then bodies are animated as undead. So you know
    what is the best currency when dealing with Shadow Empire!
    And out of it the world was made. For Darkness alone is worshipful, and the Lord thereof (Melkor) may yet make other worlds to be gifts to those that serve him, so that the increase of their power shall find no end"

    Sauron to Ar-Pharazon, Silmarillion.

  • #23
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    Ignore Edena_of_Neith
    Most of the Shadow Empire's current strength is magical.
    Late 18th century weapons are nice, but high powered spells are still better.

    Ok, cost is not relevant here, concerning spells.
    The cost factor of casting these high powered spells is already factored into your Strength Total, Melkor.

    Currently, the Empire of Shade has a number of mages capable of casting 10th level spells (you must be 20th level 2nd edition to do so), and almost no mages (you must be 35th level in 2nd edition to do it!) that can cast 11th level spells.

    Much of your 77 Strength Total comes from this magical knowhow.

    But your mages are increasing in power and level, and more and more of them will be able to throw 10th level spells, and your greatest will start to be able to throw 11th level spells.

    By the way, you must be 40th level in 2nd edition terms to cast a 12th level spell.

    True Dweomers are called 10th level spells, and perhaps they are, but ... they are NOT as powerful as the great 10th level spells of old, when Netheril was around, much less the 11th level spells.

    Anyone today who reaches 20th level and has an 18 intelligence (in 2nd edition terms) can cast True Dweomers.
    To cast the great 10th level spells from the past requires special knowledge ... and until Kas brought back the Arcane Age, it was basically impossible for anyone on Oerth to do it.

  • #24
    OCC (and there is no IC for me yet)

    Thank you Edena and William Ronald, your post have been very helpfull for me to find right stuff.

    In case you need my e-mail: zelda@dlc.fi

    Serpenteye, could you please mail me that 'lost thread', if I recall right, you had it.

    I read rules, they are good, and they also immensily frighten non-strategy-gamer like me.

    Hehe, I don't wish to claim any more powers at this point.

  • #25
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    Ignore Edena_of_Neith
    RULING:

    Nobody currently can cast 10th level magic except:

    Vecna can immediately do so on Turn 1.
    Acererak can immediately do so on Turn 1.
    Iuz can immediately do so on Turn 1.
    Kas and his people can immediately do so on Turn 1.
    The Shadow Empire can do immediately so on Turn 1.

    Anyone these Powers give the secrets of 10th level spells to can begin casting 10th level magic immediately.
    A nation so gifted can share that gift, and those receiving the gift secondhand can also cast 10th level magic immediately.

    Otherwise, your Power must obtain a Power Level of 5 to be able to cast 10th level magic.
    If you enter the Magical Arms Race, you will be able to cast 10th level magic on Turn 3.

    If your power can cast 10th level spells, you may announce ALL of the following during your turn:

    You can counter someone else's 10th level magic.
    You can freely transport your entire army from one area of Oerth to another.
    Your ability to destroy all enemies is greatly enhanced, and this will be taken into account in what you say you do.
    Your ability to defend yourself against attack will be greatly enhanced, and this will be taken into account in what you say you do.
    You can begin to permanently alter the climate of your country.
    You can begin to permanently alter the flora and fauna of your country.
    You can begin to permanently alter the topography of your country.
    You can begin to attempt to permanently alter your people, enhancing them in some way (increases to stats, extra limbs, mutations, psionic powers, innate magical powers, etc.) This kind of alteration could permanently increase your country's base Power Level.

    You may attempt to cause a catrastrophe of some sort, like a tidal wave, hurricane, volcanic explosion, earthquake, major (and uncontrollable) forest fire, tempest, blizzard (in the tropics), heat wave (in the arctic), and the like.
    The catastrophe can be countered if another power (or the target) with 10th level magic states it is doing so, and you may only target one Power (one person IRL) per Turn with a catastrophe.
    Wish spells will not stop your catastrophe.
    If your catastrophe succeeds, your enemy will suffer a permanent loss to his Base Strength Total.

    RULING:

    Nobody currently can cast 11th level spells, except:

    Vecna can immediately do so on Turn 1.
    Acererak can do so starting on Turn 2.
    Iuz can do so starting on Turn 3.
    Kas and his people can do so starting on Turn 4.
    The Shadow Empire can do so starting on Turn 5.

    You cannot give out the secrets of 11th level magic until you can use it yourself.
    Once given out, it can be used by the nation it is given to, and those that nation chooses to share it with, on the Turn they receive the gift.

    All nations that would use 11th level magic must be able to use 10th level magic.
    If they cannot, they cannot receive the gift of 11th level magic nor can they share it with anyone else.

    Everyone else can begin casting 11th level magic the Turn after they obtain a Power Level of 20.
    If you enter the Magical Arms Race on Turn 1, you will be able to cast 11th level magic on Turn 8.

    If your Power can employ 11th level magic, you can announce ALL of the following during your Turn:

    You can counter someone else's 11th level magic.
    You can automatically counter any lesser magic.
    Your power to destroy is MASSIVELY increased, and this will be taken into account regarding what you say you do.
    Your power to defend yourself is MASSIVELY increased, and this will be taken into account regarding what you say you do.
    You can permanently alter the climate of your country totally.
    You can rearrange the geography of your country in major ways.
    You can rearrange the flora and fauna of your country as you please.
    You may bequeath upon your entire population one innate magical power per Turn (anything of 5th level or lower.)
    You may permanently alter your entire population, mutating them into something else (you could turn all your elves into avariel, or all your humans into elves, or all your goblins into orcs.)
    You may permanently increase your Power's Strength Total by 3 per Turn.

    You may inflict a major catastrophe.
    Unless countered by a 10th level or higher spell, it automatically succeeds.
    A 10th level spell does not stop it, but lessens it's effect.
    You can cause a massive tidal wave, regions at the equator to freeze solid, regions in the arctic to melt and steam, violent earthquakes, massive explosions, massive volcanic eruptions, the devastation of an entire region by any kind of force.
    The Power you target will suffer a loss of 1/4 of his entire Power Level, rounded up, permanently.
    You may only target one Power (one person IRL) per Turn with a catastrophe.

    You may attempt to squelch all magic on Oerth for the current Turn.
    If you are countered by 10th level magic, you have only a 50% chance of success.
    If you are countered by 11th level magic, you fail.
    Otherwise, the Magical Arms race is halted that turn (nobody gains any points the next Turn from this Turn's research.)
    Planars lose most of their abilities, and this will be noted in what is said and done.
    Undead lose most of their abilities, and this will be noted in what is said and done.
    If you squelch all magic with your 11th level magic, that is all you can do with it in your Turn.

    RULING:

    Nobody can currently cast 12th level spells.

    By the time someone is able to use 12th level magic, I may have found some way to adjudicate said magic!

    (This whole affair of high powered magic is a very difficult thing to adjudicate. It was beyond the scope of D&D except in the Arcane Age setting, which was little played. I am attempting to handle it.)
    Last edited by Edena_of_Neith; Wednesday, 6th February, 2002 at 11:34 AM.

  • #26
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    Ignore Edena_of_Neith
    Ruling concerning Technology.

    Every Turn represents one month in game time, but of course technology is being shared at a prodigious rate, and greedy hands are helping themselves to the best weapons they can obtain.

    In the Technological Arms Race:

    A Strength Level of 3 indicates your country has primitive firearms.
    A Strength Level of 6 indicates your country has very advanced flintlocks, cannon, and is beginning to seriously enter the field of Technomancy.
    A Strength Level of 9 indicates your country is now able to produce early 19th century weapons.
    A Strength Level of 12 indicates your country is now able to produce mid 19th century weapons.
    A Strength Level of 15 indicates your country is now able to produce late 19th century weapons.
    A Strength Level of 18 indicates your country is at 1900 Terran levels of weaponry.
    A Strength Level of 21 indicates World War One technology.
    A Strength Level of 24 indicates early World War Two technology.
    A Strength Level of 27 indicates late World War Two technology.
    A Strength Level of 30 indicates nuclear weapons.
    A Strength Level of 33 indicates ICBMs.
    A Strength Level of 36 indicates thermonuclear weapons.
    A Strength Level of 39 indicates primitive computer guided weapons.
    A Strength Level of 42 indicates your first space shot.
    A Strength Level of 45 indicates your first moon landing.
    A Strength Level of 48 indicates your first smart weapons.
    A Strength Level of 51 indicates you have very sophisticated computer guided weapons.
    A Strength Level of 54 indicates you have the war technology of 2002 Terra.

    Of course, you want it, and you want it now.
    You don't want to wait years for the good stuff, do you?
    Well now, be honest ... do you?
    Tell me you are not eager to get your hands on those firearms (much less the rest.)

    The Lortmil Technomancy and the Shadow Empire both already have late 19th century weapons (and the Lortmil Technomancy also has a late 19th century society to boot.)

    If one of these Powers decides to share their technology with you, you gain 3 points in the Technological Arms Race (whether you declared you were in it or not.)
    Thus, if you announced you joined the Technological Arms Race, you'd gain 6 points on Turn 1, not 3.
    If both of those nations decide to help you, you gain SIX additional points, and a total of 9 if you had already announced you were in the Technological Arms race.

    If a Power shares technology with you, you may share it with other Powers as you please.
    Any Power you share technology with, gains an additional 3 points of it's own, in addition to their efforts in the Technological Arms race.

    This can add up in a terrifying way.

    Let us say the Shadow Empire and the Lortmil Technomancy both give technology to Celene.
    Celene had announced it was in the Arms Race, so it gains 9 points (3 base, plus 6 from the two Powers.)
    Celene announces it is giving technology to the Lendores, and they thus receive an extra 3 points to the 3 they already had for declaring themselves in the Industrial Race.

    However, both the Lortmil Technomancy and the Shadow Empire had ALREADY given technology to the Lendores, as well as Celene.
    The Lendores had already gained their base 3, plus the 6 from the help, for a total of 9.
    Since Celene is also helping them, they gain TWELVE points.

    Then the Lendores turn around and bequeath what was given to them, to Celene, which now also gains 12 points.

    That's the limit. No nation can gain more than 12 points in the Technological Arms race on Turn One, except under the most extraordinary of conditions.
    It doesn't matter how many further nations bequeath technology to your power: it can't gain more than 12 points on Turn One.

    On Turn Two, this absolute limit drops to 6 points (as higher technology is harder to transport and share, much less build.)

    On Turn Three and beyond, you can only gain 3 points per Turn, regardless of how many Powers help you.

    Incidentally, neither the Lortmil Technomancy nor the Shadow Empire can ever increase faster than the rate of 3 points per turn. Ever.
    They cannot benefit from giving each other technology.
    They cannot benefit from others giving them technology.

    But of course both of them start with late 19th century technology anyways (the equivalent of 15 points for everyone else) so they have no right to complain.

    None of this has anything to do with your CIVILIZATION.
    You can be extremely advanced technologically, and very primitive otherwise (remember Dune?)
    As a rule of thumb, if you are obtaining vast amounts of help from other nations, and making a massive effort yourself, your country will progress through the Renaissance at a rate equal to 10 times the IRL historical rate.
    Which means that, if all the Turns lasted one month, your society would progress through the Industrial Revolution at the rate of about a year's equivalent per Turn.

    Thus, since the Renaissance and Industrial Revolution up til now lasted 400 years, it would take 400 turns for your society to reach it's own equivalent of our modern world.

    You have the option of using your Strength Total to speed up the Renaissance and Industrial Revolution in your society.
    For every 3 points you give up from everything else, you can advance the process by 1 year.
    For every 3 points someone else gives you out of the kindness of their heart, you gain another year.

    Thus, the Lortmil Technomancy could state it is deploying it's entire Strength Total of 17 to helping the Kevellond League to advance industrially.
    The Kevellond League would then be considered to have advanced 5 2/3rds years into the Renaissance.

    If the Kevellond League devoted another 21 points to this process, it would advance another 7 years into the Renaissance, for a total of 12 2/3rds years of advancement ... to about the equivalent of 1513 IRL.

    Does this sound slow and unreasonable? Consider what you are trying to do, folks.
    The Renaissance and Enligtenment, and the Industrial Revolution, and everything up til now, took 400 years!
    You are trying to compress hundreds of years of social progress into a few years.

    I am allowing that it is possible, if you spend the incredible number of points it would take, but you cannot go from medieval to modern in a few months ... it is just not possible.

    There is a payback, however slow it may be, for this activity ... a big payback.
    For every 10 years your Power advances into the Renaissance, you gain one point of Base Power per country you are running, permanently.
    Large countries, like United Ahlissa, gain more: up to 3 points of power.
    Entire peoples, like the Drow of Oerth, gain 4 points.

    So, consider the Baklunish Confederation. Zeif, Ekbir, Tusmit, Ket, Yecha, Ull, the Paynims, Istivar, and Garnak. 7 small countries, 1 intermediate sized one, and 1 big one.
    A gain of 5 + 2 + 3 points, for advancing that 10 years, for a total permanent gain of 10 points.

    That is the reward.

    The penalty? You are not using your society's power to commit acts of war, or to defend itself from attack.
    If you are attacked during the Turn, I will take this into account.

    You must PUBLICLY STATE you are placing Power Level into advancing your civilization, and how many Points you are devoting ... it is not something you can keep secret (that is, e-mailing me with your activity is useless.)
    Last edited by Edena_of_Neith; Thursday, 7th February, 2002 at 05:21 AM.

  • #27
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    Wow. Edena, I think you should consider (after the IR itself) putting all this stuff into a master document...

    At the rate you are producing content, by the time we get started, you'll have just about created a whole new gaming system! Limited only by the amount of gaming worlds there are left to blow up

  • #28
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    Edena

    Very nice indeed. I particuarly like that each thread aproximates one month. In earleir IRs it was very difficult to judge the flow of time.

    On a side note: I noticed that for the other world powers, only the Church of shade were listed. Does that meen that reprisial and forester will not be joining in on this? Will you be reprisenting the UC (and other torilian factions) then?

  • #29
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    Ignore Edena_of_Neith
    Check out my revision of the above article, and see if you still agree with it (rueful look.)

    I hope Forrester will represent the UC if needed, or that someone will ... after all, the Wanderer is about to let them have it, and it would be most interesting if they did not reply ... hmmm ... people might then start to believe the Wanderer ...

    I think we have lost Reprisal permanently (sigh.)
    One of the best people in the IR thread.

  • #30
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    Ignore LordMelkor{Talos}
    So Edena it means three rounds are needed for other countries to catch to Lotmilis`s Technocracy and Shadow`s Empire tech level, assuming someone gives them technology, am I right?

    Also if Shadow Empire trades magical and technological secrets for slaves, who are of great use to us( see my post below), will we get some power points from it? Or if, let`s say Shade and Kas share their magical might with each other, will they gain any benefits?
    And out of it the world was made. For Darkness alone is worshipful, and the Lord thereof (Melkor) may yet make other worlds to be gifts to those that serve him, so that the increase of their power shall find no end"

    Sauron to Ar-Pharazon, Silmarillion.

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