Mesh Hongs Monster Request / Discussion Thread

My latest effort is the BBEG for the next stage of my campaign: Shargin, the chosen of Dajobas-RA.

A Sahuagin infused with the divine energy of his evil Shark god, Shargin has grow to monstrous proportions and is a cunning and brutal adversary.

He should provide the impression of being an almost unstoppable force of slaughter and destruction, and would likely be used in an encounter backed up with a large number of Sahuagin minions filling most monster roles.


Shargin, Chosen of Dajobas-Ra Level 15 Elite Brute
Large Natural Humanoid XP 2,400
Initiative +11 Senses Perception +11
Snapping Jaws aura 2; Enemies within the aura grant combat advantage.
HP 360; Bloodied 180; Roar of the Depths recharges when Shargin is bloodied.
AC 28; Fortitude 30, Reflex 27, Will 28
Saving Throws +2
Speed 8
Action Points 1

Claw (Standard; at-will)
Melle 2; +18 vs AC, 3D12+10 damage.

Bite, Thrash, Throw (Standard; at-will)
Melle 2; +18 vs AC, 3D8+10 and ongoing 10 (Save Ends).
Secondry Attack: +16vs Fortitude; 2D8+5 and target is slide 3 squares.

Blood Frenzy (Immediate Reaction; recharge 456)
Shargin Charges or makes a basic attack against the triggering enemy.

Roar of the Depths (Minor; encounter) ♦ Fear
Close Blast 5; Targets Enemies; +14 vs Will; 3D8+10 Psychic Damage and target is dazed (Save Ends)

Juggernaught of Death ♦ Trait
Whenever Shargin misses with an attack, Shargin's next hit deals an extra 2D8 damage.

Alignment Evil
Languages: Common, Aquan
Skills Religion +16, Intimidate +18
Str 23 (+13) Dex 16 (+10) Wis 16 (+10)
Con 20 (+12) Int 20 (+12) Cha 20 (+12)

Thanks for posting, lets have a look at your level 15 elite brute:-

Defences:
Your defences are a little high, but as the creature is a boss I don’t really see a problem, for the record my expected defences are:
AC 27; Fortitude 28; Reflex 27; Will 27.
But like I say I think these defences should be fine, maybe consider dropping Fortitude to 29 from 30.

Attacks:
You seem to be using the old MM1&2 to hit value for brutes, in MM3 they effectively gained a +2 to hit (which they needed) so a level 15 brute is now on attack +20 vs. AC and attack +18 vs. NADs.

Claw (attack)
Your damage expression for this attack is actually in line with MM3 expected damage, but I think you have it too far weighted to the dice. I think MM3 wise it should probably be 4d6+20 damage, this gives a slightly lower max damage than your expression (44 instead of 46) with an average damage of about 34 as apposed to yours of about 29.

Bite, Thrash, Throw (attack)
This looks alright, though I would probably change the secondary to 2d6+10 damage and add knocked prone to its effect.

Blood Frenzy (reaction)
You don’t state the trigger for the reaction, my guess that it is when an enemy becomes bloodied

Roar of the Depths (attack)
If this is a psychic and fear effect I would have the attack as Burst 5 targeting Will, if you wanted a Close Blast effect I might have it as a thunder and fear effect targeting fortitude.

I wouldn’t give it a further -2 attack penalty for it being an area attack as this creature is an elite, so its attack value would be +18 vs. Fortitude (MM3 value).

Damage wise I might actually tone it down a little because it is a minor action attack, then again I might not depending on the rest of build. The lower expression I might use would be 2d8+10 damage (keeping the on hit daze).

Juggernaught of Death (trait)
I can see the thinking behind this power but for some reason it unsettles me, it might be because it stacks with itself. So in theory if say it misses on its turn, then gains 2 opportunity attacks and also misses with those then hits on its next turn it will also be doing +6d8 damage.

As written this also includes its Roar of the Depths which is interesting to say the least as it could very well miss a couple of targets which would stack up some bonus damage while still hitting enemies! Or maybe worse the creature could apply its bonus damage to the blast attack itself thus getting much more effect from it.

This power would either need to be replaced by something else or reworded so that it only applied to melee attacks, and also handled escalating bonus issues.

General
This is not something I say often but I am not 100% sure what this creature looks like from its attacks and your brief description, it’s a “sahuagin infused with divine shark power”. From its Bite, thrash and throw power I am guessing that it is a 2 armed large sahuagin with its upper torso bulking out into the head of a shark?

I also think that this creature should have a swim speed.

Sahuagin have tails, I might build an attack or power around that.

So those are my initial thoughts I hope you find them useful, I will try an post my own version of your creature to give you a few more ideas.

Thanks Mesh Hong, great stuff.

I've attached a couple of pics that were the inspiration for Shargin, to give you an idea of what he looks like.

Attacks:
You seem to be using the old MM1&2 to hit value for brutes, in MM3 they effectively gained a +2 to hit (which they needed) so a level 15 brute is now on attack +20 vs. AC and attack +18 vs. NADs.

Click to expand...

A little guy from MM3 called the maw demon supplied the frame work for this guy, and I guess he had the snapping jaws aura instead of the improved attack bonus. Is both together not a bit much?

Claw (attack)
Your damage expression for this attack is actually in line with MM3 expected damage, but I think you have it too far weighted to the dice. I think MM3 wise it should probably be 4d6+20 damage, this gives a slightly lower max damage than your expression (44 instead of 46) with an average damage of about 34 as apposed to yours of about 29.

Click to expand...

I see what your saying here.

Bite, Thrash, Throw (attack)
This looks alright, though I would probably change the secondary to 2d6+10 damage and add knocked prone to its effect.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure why I didn't have this knocking them prone, good idea.

Blood Frenzy (reaction)
You don’t state the trigger for the reaction, my guess that it is when an enemy becomes bloodied

Click to expand...

You guess correctly sir, this was just a typo.

Roar of the Depths (attack)
If this is a psychic and fear effect I would have the attack as Burst 5 targeting Will, if you wanted a Close Blast effect I might have it as a thunder and fear effect targeting fortitude.

I wouldn’t give it a further -2 attack penalty for it being an area attack as this creature is an elite, so its attack value would be +18 vs. Fortitude (MM3 value).

Damage wise I might actually tone it down a little because it is a minor action attack, then again I might not depending on the rest of build. The lower expression I might use would be 2d8+10 damage (keeping the on hit daze).

Click to expand...

Really good point re: psychic vs thunder and burst vs blast. I'd like to keep the blast and make it thunder, but can I really justify it only hitting enemies if I do?

Juggernaught of Death (trait)
I can see the thinking behind this power but for some reason it unsettles me, it might be because it stacks with itself. So in theory if say it misses on its turn, then gains 2 opportunity attacks and also misses with those then hits on its next turn it will also be doing +6d8 damage.

As written this also includes its Roar of the Depths which is interesting to say the least as it could very well miss a couple of targets which would stack up some bonus damage while still hitting enemies! Or maybe worse the creature could apply its bonus damage to the blast attack itself thus getting much more effect from it.

This power would either need to be replaced by something else or reworded so that it only applied to melee attacks, and also handled escalating bonus issues.

Click to expand...

It was my intention to have it a cumulative build up, but I hadn't considered the interaction with Roar of the Depths. Changed to Melee attacks only.

General
This is not something I say often but I am not 100% sure what this creature looks like from its attacks and your brief description, it’s a “sahuagin infused with divine shark power”. From its Bite, thrash and throw power I am guessing that it is a 2 armed large sahuagin with its upper torso bulking out into the head of a shark?

I also think that this creature should have a swim speed.

Sahuagin have tails, I might build an attack or power around that.

Click to expand...

Yeesh, yeah...a swim speed would be helpful for my shark man I think. How about dropping the snapping jaws and using MM3 attack bonus, and then giving him the +2 to hit non-aquatics in the water?

For some reason, artists seem to prefer leaving tails off their shark men, so I think I will too.

Old_school_overlord said:

A little guy from MM3 called the maw demon supplied the frame work for this guy,

Click to expand...

(shakes fist) I've been lured into commenting on a reskinned official creature...again!

Old_school_overlord said:

and I guess he had the snapping jaws aura instead of the improved attack bonus. Is both together not a bit much?

Click to expand...

To be perfectly honest I didn't see the aura until after I had posted.

Looking at the Maw Demon its a bit odd, they have decreased its attack value from 20 to 19 then compensated by effectively giving it a +2 from combat advantage. Its a puzzling dynamic because it's burst attack is at the expected +18 which means it is getting an automatic +2 bonus against adjecent creatures.

Personally I don't really see any need for the aura. Adventurers fight things with lots of teeth all the time and they don't force them into provoking Combat Advantage, why is the Sharkman any different?

You could reduce its melee attacks by 2 points (to +18), and keep the aura but at aura 1 instead of aura 2. This might balance its damage against accuracy, keeping its high threat level when adjacent but making it a slightly lesser threat when more than 1 square away. This would also encourage it to engage base-to-base instead of standing off at its melee 2 range.

In all fairness you have a level 15 brute that doesn't have a double attack, it has an attack with a lesser secondary attack, but it doesn't have a true double threat attack. If the creature stays with this attack configuration I wouldn't worry about its damage output as technically it might be below average all things considered.

Old_school_overlord said:

Really good point re: psychic vs thunder and burst vs blast. I'd like to keep the blast and make it thunder, but can I really justify it only hitting enemies if I do?

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Can you justify it? well that is a question for your conscience, I seem to remember having a skim through the MM3 looking at bursts and was surprised that most of them were enemies only.

Old_school_overlord said:

It was my intention to have it a cumulative build up, but I hadn't considered the interaction with Roar of the Depths. Changed to Melee attacks only.

Click to expand...

I really think melee only is the way to go.

Old_school_overlord said:

For some reason, artists seem to prefer leaving tails off their shark men, so I think I will too.

Click to expand...

Why bother with a tail when you have a naked woman....... no sharkman should be without one!

(shakes fist) I've been lured into commenting on a reskinned official creature...again!

Click to expand...

I'll have you know I doubled it's HP and added an action point with a minimum of parental supervision.


K, revised version:


Shargin, Chosen of Dajobas-Ra Level 15 Elite Brute
Large Natural Humanoid XP 2,400
Initiative +11 Senses Perception +11
HP 360; Bloodied 180; Roar of the Depths recharges when bloodied.
AC 28; Fortitude 29, Reflex 27, Will 28
Saving Throws +2
Speed 8, Swim 8
Action Points 1

Claw (Standard; at-will)
Melle 2; +20 vs AC, 4D6+18 damage.

Bite, Thrash, Throw (Standard; at-will)
Melle 2; +20 vs AC, 3D8+10 and ongoing 10 (Save Ends). Secondry Attack: +18 vs Fortitude; 2D6+10 and target is slide 3 squares and knocked prone.

Blood Frenzy (Immediate Reaction when an enemy becomes bloodied; recharge 456)
Shargin Charges or makes a basic attack against the triggering enemy.

Roar of the Depths (Minor; encounter) ♦ Fear, Thunder
Close Blast 5; +18 vs Fortitude; 2D8+10 Thunder Damage and target is dazed (Save Ends)

Juggernaught of Death ♦ Trait
Whenever Shargin misses with a Melee attack, Shargin's next hit with a Melee attack deals an extra 2D8 damage.

Alignment Evil
Skills Religion +16, Intimidate +18
Str 23 (+13) Dex 16 (+10) Wis 16 (+10)
Con 20 (+12) Int 20 (+12) Cha 20 (+12)



On a side note, I recently ran the encounter for Pandorum and the Panarii Spirit storm. Pandorum started out dealing some heavy initial damage and infuriated some melee strikers who hadn't bothered to get any ranged attacks. Thanks to a daze effect that took forever to save against, Pandorum was dispatched without any of the cool stuff ever being gotten off. The Spirit Storm was more successful, everyone was amused when the warden managed to knock a cloud of ghosts prone with a burst attack. Two exciting fights, though it could probably have been just a little bit harder - one extra monster in each stage would have really ratcheted up the tension I think.

Old_school_overlord said:

Shargin, Chosen of Dajobas-Ra Level 15 Elite Brute
Large Natural Humanoid XP 2,400
Initiative +11 Senses Perception +11
HP 360; Bloodied 180; Roar of the Depths recharges when bloodied.
AC 28; Fortitude 29, Reflex 27, Will 28
Saving Throws +2
Speed 8, Swim 8
Action Points 1

Claw (Standard; at-will)
Melle 2; +20 vs AC, 4D6+18 damage.

Bite, Thrash, Throw (Standard; at-will)
Melle 2; +20 vs AC, 3D8+10 and ongoing 10 (Save Ends). Secondry Attack: +18 vs Fortitude; 2D6+10 and target is slide 3 squares and knocked prone.

Blood Frenzy (Immediate Reaction when an enemy becomes bloodied; recharge 456)
Shargin Charges or makes a basic attack against the triggering enemy.

Roar of the Depths (Minor; encounter) ♦ Fear, Thunder
Close Blast 5; +18 vs Fortitude; 2D8+10 Thunder Damage and target is dazed (Save Ends)

Juggernaught of Death ♦ Trait
Whenever Shargin misses with a Melee attack, Shargin's next hit with a Melee attack deals an extra 2D8 damage.

Alignment Evil
Skills Religion +16, Intimidate +18
Str 23 (+13) Dex 16 (+10) Wis 16 (+10)
Con 20 (+12) Int 20 (+12) Cha 20 (+12)

Click to expand...

I like him, but for some reason I am concerned about his threat level, I might consider adding the following power and associated text change to another power.

Roar of the Depths (Minor; encounter) ♦ Fear, Thunder
Close Blast 5; +18 vs. Fortitude; 2D8+10 Thunder Damage and target is
dazed (Save Ends); if Shargin uses this attack when bloodied its Blood
Soaked Rampage power becomes available at the start of its next turn

Blood Soaked Rampage (standard; must have used Roar of the Depths
while bloodied in a previous turn)
Shargin makes a Claw attack against a primary target; hit or miss Shargin
may shift 4 squares and make a Bite, Thrash, Throw attack against a
secondary target

Adding this might give the creature one last desperate attack when it will probably be nearly dead.

Just because the power is there doesn't mean you have to use it in play, and it will give the creature another chance for glory if you feel it has underperformed.

Hi Mesh. I am trying to come up with some aggressive plant based creatures similar to the yellow musk creeper. I miss the old-school plant monsters. Do you have any others that you have come up with? I’m particularly looking for levels 3-9. If you have anything, I would appreciate it.

Thanks

Here are some level plant creatures I used a very long time ago in my own campaign. I have updated them and fiddled with them a bit to bring them up to date and I have included the brief description notes I made myself at the time.


Rage Creeper
Rage creepers look like dense patches of plant matter, they typically roll into a surprisingly heavy ball shape made up of vine like tendrils and writhe and slam opponents. They are particularly nasty when cornered.

Rage Creeper Level 5 Brute
Small Fey Beast (blind, plant) XP 200

Initiative +4 Senses Perception +2, tremorsense 20, blindsight 10
Primitive Mark (charm) aura 1; while Creeper is marked or challenged all
enemies inside the aura may only use basic melee or ranged attack powers
HP 76; Bloodied 38
AC 17; Fortitude 18, Reflex 17, Will 15
Immune fear, gaze, poison;
Vulnerable 10 fire, also see Reactive to Danger
Speed 5, climb 5

Creeper Slam (Standard; at-will)
Attack +10 vs. AC; 2d6+4 damage; on hit slide target 1 square

Heavy Slam (Standard; at-will)
Attack +10 vs. AC; 2d8+6 damage; on hit secondary attack against the
same target; attack +8 vs. Fortitude; on hit target is pushed 2 squares
and knocked prone

Reactive to Danger (Immediate Reaction) ♦ Creeper takes fire damage
When Creeper takes fire damage it may shift 2 squares and make a
Creeper Slam attack as an immediate reaction

Alignment Unaligned
Skills Endurance +10, Stealth +9 (+11 when stationary)
Str 18 (+6) Dex 14 (+4) Wis 10 (+2)
Con 16 (+5) Int 3 (-2) Cha 3 (-2)


Drag Vine
Drag vines lie in wait for their victims to get close to them then attack with lashing vines hoping to grab as many targets as possible, when they have dragged a number of targets close enough they release spores to hopefully render their victims unconscious so that they can rake them to death.

Drag Vine Level 5 Lurker
Medium Fey Beast (blind, plant) XP 200

Initiative +10 Senses Perception +8, tremorsense 12, blindsight 6
HP 46; Bloodied 23
AC 19; Fortitude 17, Reflex 18, Will 16
Immune fear, gaze, poison;
Vulnerable 5 cold
Speed 4, climb 4

Thorn Rake (Standard; at-will)
Attack +10 vs. AC; 2d6+6 damage

Lashing Vines (Standard; recharge )
Burst 6; 1, 2, 3 or 4 enemies inside burst; attack +7 vs. Reflex; 1d6+6
damage; on hit target is grabbed and takes 3 ongoing poison damage
(escape ends both)

Drag Them In (Minor; at-will) ♦ grabbed target only
Grabbed target only; attack +8 vs. Fortitude; on hit target is pulled 4
squares; on miss target is pulled 1 square

Spore Release (Standard; encounter) ♦ poison
Burst 2; attack +7 vs. Fortitude; 1d8+6 poison damage; on hit target is
dazed and weakened (save ends), first failed save the grab is released
and target is instead knocked prone unconscious (for 1d6 rounds, no
save), the target may be revived with a DC17 heal check

Alignment Unaligned
Skills Stealth +11 (+13 when stationary)
Str 14 (+4) Dex 18 (+6) Wis 12 (+3)
Con 10 (+2) Int 5 (-1) Cha 3 (-2)


White Orchid Painbloom
The White Orchid Painbloom is a large and beautiful flower on a single thick stem, sometimes reaching up to 10ft high. Its base is a mass of woody roots and thick greasy leaves. The Orchid will usually begin combat by using its Sticky Burst power when it opponents are bunched together. It will try to hold its action point in reserve for when it needs it, namely when enemies get too close.

White Orchid Painbloom Level 5 Elite Artillery
Large Fey Beast (blind, plant) XP 400

Initiative +8 Senses Perception +3, blindsight 20
Acidic Haze (acid) aura 2; all enemies entering or starting their turn
inside aura take 3 acid damage; when bloodied this aura increases to aura
5 and 5 acid damage
HP 100; Bloodied 50; see Acidic Haze
AC 18; Fortitude 17, Reflex 18, Will 16
Immune fear, poison;
Resist 10 radiant;
Vulnerable 5 necrotic
Saving Throws +2
Speed 4, climb 2
Action Points 1

Leaf Slap (Standard; at-will)
Attack +10 vs. AC; 1d10+6 damage

Leaf Push (Minor; at-will)
Attack +8 vs. Fortitude; on hit target is pushed 1 square

Jet of Acid (Standard; at-will) ♦ acid
Range 10/20; 1 or 2 targets within 3 squares of each other; attack +12
vs. AC; 2d6+6 acid damage

Stinging Acid Glob (Standard; recharge ) ♦ acid
Range 10/20; attack +10 vs. Reflex; 2d6+12 acid damage; on hit target
takes 5 ongoing acid damage (save ends)

Blinding Burst (Standard; recharge ) ♦ radiant
Area burst 2 within 10; enemies only; attack +10 vs. Will; 2d6+4 radiant
damage; on hit target is blinded (save ends); on miss target takes half
damage

Sticky Burst (Standard; encounter) ♦ zone
Area burst 2 within 15 squares; attack +8 vs. Fortitude; on hit target is
restrained (save ends); hit or miss creates a zone that lasts until the end
of the encounter, all non plant creatures starting their turn inside the zone
are slowed until the start of their next turn, all non plant creatures ending
their turn in the zone take an attack +8 vs. Fortitude; on hit target is
immobilised (save ends)

Alignment Unaligned
Str 10 (+2) Dex 18 (+6) Wis 12 (+3)
Con 14 (+4) Int 5 (-1) Cha 10 (+2)


Well that’s all I’ve got for a quick response, I actually enjoyed going back and seeing how they would change after over a year (and an extra 24 PC levels) of creature building experience. I hope you find them interesting.

If you tell me the sort of thing you are after I should have some time to knock out a few ideas next week.

Hey Mesh (or should I go with Mr. Hong),

I am currently working on a big encounter for my level 17 party. The party consists of a human sword/shield fighter, eladrin assault swordmage, dragonborn TWF ranger, hobgoblin feylock, shifter predator druid, minotaur runepriest, and companion NPC bard (not generally involved much in combat; was there to fill the leader slot until the runepriest joined).

They have traveled to the Elemental Chaos to fulfill their end of a bargain with a fire titan smith, who wants them to reclaim his forge from a fire titan sorceress and her volcanic dragon ally. When they reach the forge, the smith will draw off the dragon and the sorceress's salamander minions, leaving her to face the PCs. As it happens, the forge is located on the edge of a massive volcano that is the final resting place of a primordial...and the reason the sorceress forced out the smith in the first place was to gain access to this place, so she can summon and hopefully steal this primordial's power. Anyways, to make an already long story short, she tries to tap into the primordial's power...and wakens a MASSIVE four headed hydra that lives in the volcano. It quickly eats her and then goes after the party.

My basic concept is to make each head (since each head is large enough to take a chunk out of a Huge fire titan) an elite monster. One of the heads will be an artillery, and one of the heads will be a lurker, pouncing out of the lava every other round to harry the party. For the other two heads, I am leaning towards brute and either soldier or controller.

Any thoughts on general abilities? I've started to work on a couple of the heads, but I'd be fascinated to see how you might approach this design.

Mesh Hong said:

Just playing around with a few concepts for low level fey creatures and have knocked up a few butterflies.

Click to expand...

I'm sending some hapless level twos into the Feywild next session. I am totally throwing these at them; they're awesome.