wall of fire + wall of ice

tibel · Jun 7, 2010

Is this possible?

(with Architect's staff +1 equipped)
standard action : Create a 3x3 block with wall of fire.
action point: Create Wall of Ice around Wall of Fire.

Wall of Fire deals damage to adjacent creatures. Wall of Ice deals damage to adjacent creatures. And a creature can hit the wall of ice. Can the wall of ice exist around the wall of fire without canceling the other out?

Aulirophile · Jun 7, 2010

Magical Ice is not not necessarily melted my Magical Fire. After all, a Wizard did it.

Solvarn · Jun 7, 2010

Aulirophile said:
Magical Ice is not not necessarily melted my Magical Ice. After all, a Wizard did it.

Per RAW no problem at all.

If it is insisted that the magical fire would melt the magical ice, you could just say it is one large area of steam, and those starting in/adjacent to the steam take damage from both the Wall of Ice and Wall of Fire effect. The downside is that the Wall of Ice is no longer an obstruction, being that it's steam. But this solution definitely isn't RAW.

NMcCoy · Jun 8, 2010

tibel said:
standard action : Create a 3x3 block with wall of fire.

Not a valid wall shape. Each square of wall must share an edge with no more than two other squares of wall.

Black Knight Irios · Jun 8, 2010

NMcCoy said:
Not a valid wall shape. Each square of wall must share an edge with no more than two other squares of wall.

I think he wants to leave the square in the middle free otherwise it would be useless as well as not allowed.

Mentat55 · Jun 8, 2010

It could be argued that the Wall of Fire deals fire damage to adjacent creatures, and thus may deal fire damage to the Wall of Ice -- which has vulnerable 25 fire and only 50 HP. However, the counter would be that the Wall of Ice is not a "creature", and thus is not a a target of the Wall of Fire power.

Also, is an architect's staff +1 enough to pull this off? Making the 3x3 Wall of Fire is OK (8 squares, the limit of the normal power), but don't you need a 5x5 Wall of Ice, which is 16 squares? Wall of Ice is only area wall 12, so you'd need a +4 staff, by my count.

DracoSuave · Jun 8, 2010

Mentat55 said:
It could be argued that the Wall of Fire deals fire damage to adjacent creatures, and thus may deal fire damage to the Wall of Ice -- which has vulnerable 25 fire and only 50 HP. However, the counter would be that the Wall of Ice is not a "creature", and thus is not a a target of the Wall of Fire power.

Actually, the wizard conjuring the Wall of Fire can use the Wall of Fire on the Wall of Ice. He -may- do so. However, he may choose not to do so.

That said, this is the same class that can cast Frostburn, that deals 'cold and fire damage.' Mixing walls like that is hardly even a -stretch- to imagine a wizard doing.

These two do that as all three Double Techs.

Jhaelen · Jun 8, 2010

Mentat55 said:
However, the counter would be that the Wall of Ice is not a "creature", and thus is not a a target of the Wall of Fire power.

I'm pretty sure it has been clarified that most powers are supposed to work on objects as well. And even if it had not been clarified, it's certainly a DM's call.
I don't think anyone would argue the reasoning that the fire wall would affect the ice wall in some way.

AbdulAlhazred · Jun 8, 2010

Jhaelen said:
I'm pretty sure it has been clarified that most powers are supposed to work on objects as well. And even if it had not been clarified, it's certainly a DM's call.
I don't think anyone would argue the reasoning that the fire wall would affect the ice wall in some way.

Its not really covered by the rules. Spell effects aren't objects. Furthermore the rules DO state that environmental effects don't have any effect on spells. A spell isn't an environmental effect either, but this would be the closest thing. It is also stated that overlapping zones each have their normal effects and don't cancel each other.

the Jester · Jun 8, 2010

AbdulAlhazred said:
Its not really covered by the rules. Spell effects aren't objects. Furthermore the rules DO state that environmental effects don't have any effect on spells. A spell isn't an environmental effect either, but this would be the closest thing. It is also stated that overlapping zones each have their normal effects and don't cancel each other.

Dude, I think "vulnerable 25 fire" is a pretty persuasive argument that said wall of fire will in fact harm said wall of ice.