companies staying away from rpg gamers

Shazman · Jun 23, 2010

GMSkarka said:
Seriously?

His advice is "be nicer people and foster a more positive culture online."

That makes him an idiot?

I'm beyond disappointed in your response, Erik. I'm disgusted.

There's a whole bunch of knee-jerking to this article, which entirely misses the point.

What he's talking about is that the WORST elements of the RPG community, as represented online, is sadly defining the segment for people OUTSIDE the community -- even in those areas where RPGers should be valued.

...and that's a bad thing.

A direct quote from his closing:

"I would really like the tabletop RPG community to be at the center of roleplaying in all media, sharing their insights, but it’s not going to happen unless that center attracts."

The result of saying that? A negative pile-on by the usual suspects... aided and abetted by professionals looking to buff up their populist cred.

Irony, thy name is Gamer.

No. His advice is "You gamers should shut up and drink the corporate kool-aid like everyone else." It may not make him an idiot, but it does make him sound like a major jerk. Doesn't he get the irony, since his article is about gamers being jerks?

Now that I have cooled off, I realize that this comment comes accross as harsher than I intended. I am sorry for any personal attack. The article was inflammatory and used profanity to describe gamers. It did make me quite upset, and I lashed out. I am sorry for that.

eyebeams · Jun 23, 2010

Shazman said:
No. His advice is "You gamers should shut up and drink the corporate kool-aid like everone else." It may not make him an idiot, but it does make him sound like a major jerk. Doesn't he get the irony, since his article is about gamers being jerks?

You seem to be under the impression that your opinion can influence my income, when the truth is I can say whatever the hell I want to you precisely because it doesn't.

Get some grounding. Consider that a site choked with contextual advertising, a banner promoting paid membership, and popups exhorting mobile users to buy paid apps is where you believe you're taking a stand against evil commercial influence. You're fighting for freedom with the backing of the head of the second largest company trying to sell you things.

ExploderWizard · Jun 23, 2010

eyebeams said:
You seem to be under the impression that your opinion can influence my income, when the truth is I can say whatever the hell I want to you precisely because it doesn't.

Get some grounding. Consider that a site choked with contextual advertising, a banner promoting paid membership, and popups exhorting mobile users to buy paid apps is where you believe you're taking a stand against evil commercial influence. You're fighting for freedom with the backing of the head of the second largest company trying to sell you things.

Advertising and selling things isn't a problem. A picky and educated consumer is the best friend to producers of quality product and the worst enemy of producers of crap. Many RPG fans are very vocal about stuff they like and dislike. This can be a blessing or a curse.

To those who see it as a curse-Stop producing crap.

Here endeth the lesson.

Pig Champion · Jun 23, 2010

Oh the irony.

Shazman · Jun 23, 2010

[No message]

Umbran · Jun 23, 2010

Folks,

A number of people have started getting personal, and that's not appropriate.

You should have no need to attempt to proactively discredit people. A person's writing style will speak for itself. Their logic and positions speak for themselves. That should be sufficient.

So, address the logic and content of a post, please, and not the person or character of the poster. Thanks.

MrMyth · Jun 23, 2010

Shazman said:
No. His advice is "You gamers should shut up and drink the corporate kool-aid like everone else." It may not make him an idiot, but it does make him sound like a major jerk. Doesn't he get the irony, since his article is about gamers being jerks?

Ok, I'm not sure I necessarily agree with everything he says, but I think people need to stop putting words in his mouth.

He isn't saying gamers shouldn't offer criticism, or don't have a right to their likes and dislikes. He is saying there is a segment of the gaming populace that is so abrasive in unleashing criticism that they can make the RPG gamer demographic less appealing for outsiders to market to.

I'd say that 99% of the people in this thread aren't the sort of folk he is talking about. But they are out there, and we've certainly encountered them all on the web.

As others have said, this isn't isolated to gamers alone. He claims that it can manifest more abundantly among gamers than elsewhere, and says that in one specific case, it very clearly did. Is that universal proof? Of course not. Can anyone of us really know for sure, without investing millions of dollars in some absurdly detailed study of the phenomonen? Nope.

But it is downright silly for people in this thread - especially industry leaders among them - to try and misinterpret or undercut his point. Taking to make this about an attack on gamers is simply nonsensical. He's saying that until the more reasonable segment of the gaming populace - which is the majority - has a stronger and more visible presence, outside sources aren't going to look to draw connections to the RPG crowd.

Whether I agree or not, it is downright disappointing to see how many people popped over to his post, apparently read only one or two lines, and then formed a complete opinion about what he was saying and why. This isn't necessarily the exact phenomonen he is talking about, but it certainly isn't a demonstration of our best side, either.

Dausuul · Jun 23, 2010

I don't buy into the whole "down with evil corporations, stick it to the Man" thing. Corporations are what they are; most of us work for one. They exist to make stuff and sell it. Some of them make stuff I like, and I buy it. Some of them make stuff I don't like, and I don't buy it. They use whatever marketing tactics they think will get their stuff to sell. Some of those tactics work on me, and some don't. So it goes. If I think a corporation is doing something genuinely unethical, I'll take it to the voting booth and try and get it made illegal; otherwise I just won't buy what I regard as inferior.

However... the original blog post does indeed reek of sour grapes. These customers were focused on concrete goals instead of social conversations? Oh, what a horrible crime! They resisted desired/profitable behaviors? Well, evidently your desires and their desires did not align. They complained all the goddamn time? Maybe they didn't like something. They related cynically to content? What does that even mean?

The bottom line is this: You identified your whatever-it-was as "tailor-made" for tabletop RPG-ers. If they did all these things that cut against your business model, then clearly you were wrong. Deal with it.

Furthermore, if this is, as you say, just a small part of the tabletop community causing problems... then what's the point of your post? Do you really think they'll change because you called them ***holes? If they're so unreasonable, then your... ah... sweet words of reason won't work on them. And to the rest of the community, it's just a gratuitous smack in the face.

Shazman · Jun 23, 2010

eyebeams said:
You seem to be under the impression that your opinion can influence my income, when the truth is I can say whatever the hell I want to you precisely because it doesn't.

Get some grounding. Consider that a site choked with contextual advertising, a banner promoting paid membership, and popups exhorting mobile users to buy paid apps is where you believe you're taking a stand against evil commercial influence. You're fighting for freedom with the backing of the head of the second largest company trying to sell you things.

Actually, I don't really care if my opinion does influence your income. The article was really inflammatory, used profanity (which is never okay in my book nor should it ever be socially acceptable to do so), and, whether you intended it to be or not, it did come accross as a smack in the face to many gamers, especially to those of us who feel we do not act like jerks online or in person. You article seemed to exhibit the same jerkishness that you accuse many gamers of exhibiting, so it does seem to be very ironic.