Results 221 to 230 of 304
Wednesday, 23rd June, 2010, 07:15 PM #221
Cutpurse (Lvl 5)
Wednesday, 23rd June, 2010, 07:16 PM #222
Orcus on an Off-Day (Lvl 22)
In rare, exceptional cases, a tie-in may explode in popularity and become a success on its own merits, but as I said earlier, that's not something you can plan for. And if it does happen, I really doubt that a handful of "toxic gamers" are going to derail it.
Last edited by Dausuul; Wednesday, 23rd June, 2010 at 07:23 PM.
Wednesday, 23rd June, 2010, 07:24 PM #223
Magsman (Lvl 14)
Wednesday, 23rd June, 2010, 07:27 PM #224
The Great Druid (Lvl 17)
I care far less about the quantity of products available, and far more about the quality. I'd rather fewer marketers with better ideas. Remember the initial product glut of 3.0? Should gamers have been uncritical? Did criticism lead to the survival of the better producers?
This is the key question. I can't speak for anyone else, but I at least am not looking for novels and movies and transmedia and so forth from D&D. The comparison between RPG materials and an artist's paint and canvas is quite apt; neither the artist nor anyone else is interested in "Paint and Canvas: The Movie."
Give me new and better paint, canvas, and brushes. Give me better ways to reach potential viewers and fellow artists. Increase the number of artists and viewers. That's all the "cool stuff" I want from RPGs and the companies that make them.
Regardless, I would suggest that "we" have such a negative reputation from the producers for raging against the results because the other option is for the producers to accept that criticism of the results is valid.
This is not unlike being unable to sell a product to a market, and then blaming the market for not buying your product.
(And this does not necessarily mean change -- criticism that Han Solo wasn't such a nice guy because he shot Greedo first is valid. But that doesn't invalidate Han Solo's character growth throughout Star Wars. Nor, IMHO, should it have been changed.)
I am very happy with RCFG so far; I would be a moron if I therefore thought that the community should adopt the game "just 'cause". Many fair criticisms can be levelled against the system. Some have informed my revision; some miss the mark for what I am trying to accomplish.
I've had some negative reviews for short stories I've had published, too. I could decide that was the fault of the fault of the story, or that the story and the reviewer just didn't click. And, sometimes, I believe one to be true, and sometimes the other, depending upon the review. What I don't believe is that it is the fault of the reviewer -- that he is "out to get me" or "acting maliciously". He may be, but there is no profit in that assumption.
Wednesday, 23rd June, 2010, 07:31 PM #225
Superhero (Lvl 15)
Later on, he explains that "There are customers out there who can faithfully buy from you and still run your company into the ground."
Nowhere does he say these people want these gamers to just stop criticizing and buy their stuff. He's saying they want gamers to buy their stuff without driving away other consumers, or proving to be a hassle or hindrance in some other fashion.
That's what is frustrating me, here. There seems to be a goal of trying to break this down into "Us" vs "Them", the "Gamers" vs "Corporations and Marketing".
This idea that there couldn't actually be gamers out there who are acting like jerks - that it had to be the company's fault, that they are to blame for producing a shoddy product... I mean, it could be true. It certainly could be.
But having this expectation that gamers could do no wrong, here, and that this is all about corporations and marketing just trying to brainwash them... again, the more we focus on 'us' vs 'them', the more insular that makes the gaming community.
This article isn't about gamers who he has a hard time selling a product to. It is about gamers who buy a product, join a new community attached to it, and then drive others away. At which point the companies realize that even if the gamers themselves are willing to buy the product, they cost the company in the long run.
Whether this claim is legitimate or not remains up for debate. But avoiding addressing it entirely, and saying this is all about evil corporations trying to brainwash the consumers, and that gamers are too smart to fall for that...
Again, I just don't see it.
Wednesday, 23rd June, 2010, 07:32 PM #226
The Great Druid (Lvl 17)
It seems clear to me that every product along this line to date, with the exception of the novel lines, has been based on the hope for mere uncritical acceptance of whatever is produced, because of the D&D logo.
That dilutes the D&D logo, and is ultimately damaging to awareness of the game in a positive light.
EDIT: It is in the interest of marketers to convince you that your hobby is all of this "cool stuff".
It is not always in your interest, nor in the interest of the hobby.
Last edited by Raven Crowking; Wednesday, 23rd June, 2010 at 07:49 PM.
Wednesday, 23rd June, 2010, 07:36 PM #227
Acolyte (Lvl 2)
- Join Date
- Jan 2002
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ø Block Corinth
Flat out, I don't need you. I don't need any publisher. Because of these two facts, you have to work really hard to give me a reason to buy- go learn from Trent Reznor, because he's already figured this out. I can roll my own, I have rolled my own, and I increasingly find it difficult to justify spending money on stuff that I can get for free elsewhere. Setting material? Wikis and YouTube vidoes are fantastic for this sort of stuff--one evening of Ancient Aliens clips on YouTube, which I don't pay a dime for, and I'm set for an indefinite period of time--and are free for the taking. Hell, combine the reading of a Wiki with listening to an audio clip from YouTube and I can make even better use of my time (and can do it on a lunch break, coffee break, etc. so I can fit other time commitments into it). Plenty of weblogs out there can, and do, provide useful information and content without all of the crap that you want out of it- and all without ever going near the matter of PDF piracy.
Art? As in drawings and paintings? Google Image Search with relevant key words solves that problem. You're far more likely to find imagery that you'll want to use in other media, including non-fiction (especially non-fiction for certain genres). Sites like Deviant Art will handle the rest. Storytelling? Writing forums and 'blogs, and that's just the start of what's available for free. TVTropes alone covers so many bases that it's become my go-to place for any issue related to storytelling in its practical form. Design? The Gaming Den, where Frank Trollman puts out in clear, concise language what does and does not work (and why, and shows his work) is just one of many places where folks looking to roll their own can quickly get up to speed- and in similar time learn to master principles and thus become competent at it.
The tabletop RPG hobby is now in a place where it can again become a haven for tinkerers and craftsmen. More and more players are aware that publishers aren't providing a sufficient reason to buy, so they aren't going to do so until that happens. They know that you need them, and that they don't need you. The retro-clone movement, while itself small, signals a larger reawakening of the very qualities that made tabletop RPGs take off to begin with: as a participatory, shared hobby of productive creativity. The publishers that grok this and feed into it are doing just fine, whereas the rest are choking on their own waste with no sensible folks lamenting that fact.
What are you doing to justify your existence? As things are you look like whiny middlemen facing your own extinction, and if that is all that you are then go die in a fire and good riddance to you. Once you're producing something of actual value--and too few of publishers do--then you will actually be worth spending money upon. Until then, get back to work. You shan't be missed if you wish to quit.
"then go die in a fire"? In what way do you think that is appropriate language to use in a discussion? Your out of this thread. ~ Plane Sailing
Last edited by Plane Sailing; Wednesday, 23rd June, 2010 at 11:12 PM.
Wednesday, 23rd June, 2010, 07:40 PM #228
Superhero (Lvl 15)
If adults see a D&D movie that actually does well - that stands on its own, and convinces them the game isn't about devil-worship or whatever other misconceptions they have, but actually has something interesting to offer - that helps the game in the long run. Even if those who see it don't immediately start playing themselves, it at least makes it something more conventional to them, more accepted. When their coworker mentions playing the game, it doesn't seem as weird and unusual as it would if it remained completely alien to them.
And honestly? My very first connection with D&D? Dragonlance novels, and the SSI Gold Box games. I didn't even realize they were D&D when I played them - I just enjoyed the stories in the games, and when I found out some of my friends were playing a game that all these were based on, I leapt to get in on it.
I'm not saying any one product is going to change the world. I simply don't agree with any outlook that says we don't need or want such media connections. Even if they haven't been done well in the past, I think they offer potential to attract new gamers and bring D&D more into the cultural mainstream, both of which are good things for our hobby in the long run.
Wednesday, 23rd June, 2010, 07:41 PM #229
The Great Druid (Lvl 17)
Clearly, the blog entry suggests that "everyone else" drinks the corporate kool-aid and consumes silently, and that we have a reputation of being toxic because we do not. Do you disagree with this assertation? Your posts do not make it seem so.
(And I, for one, would rather have a reputation for being arrogant, than a reputation for being a patsy. Both are liable to be overstated. The person folks claim is arrogant is often just not easily pushed around. The person folks claim is a patsy is often just a bit too easily pushed around. I have no desire to be easily pushed around.)
Wednesday, 23rd June, 2010, 07:53 PM #230
Orcus on an Off-Day (Lvl 22)
At that point, a lot of folks concluded that this was bellyaching from somebody who couldn't figure out how to make money off us, decided it was somehow our fault, and then turned his own failure into a sweeping indictment of the gaming community (or some "toxic" subset thereof) as consumers in general. The rest of the post does nothing to lessen this impression.
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