companies staying away from rpg gamers

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GMSkarka

Explorer
Do you claim that this is a special characteristic of the RPG community?

Not at all. We're just talking about the RPG community specifcally because of the experience that Malcolm cited, which is something that I've heard echoed by the transmedia folks I've talked to as well.

I don't think it's unique to gaming. It's present in pretty much every fandom, to varying degrees -- and exacerbated by the internet.

Just because it isn't unique though, that doesn't change the fact that I think it's a shame, and hurts us in the long run.
 

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Dausuul

Legend
After thinking about it a bit, here's the way I see Comic Book Guy, based on my own intuitive understanding and experience liberally sprinkled with pop psychology:

Comic Book Guy is someone (typically male) who is somewhat introverted, reasonably intelligent, and most of all severely lacking in self-esteem and confidence. He compensates for that lack by becoming deeply invested in comic books, RPGs, or some other segment of pop culture, and then using his extreme knowledge of that area as a way to demonstrate his (self-perceived) superiority by putting down people who don't share his opinions or who lack his level of knowledge.

The thing is, this phenomenon is self-reinforcing. Comic Book Guy is so obnoxious because of his insecurities. But those insecurities are fed by his knowledge that, due to his chosen interests, the rest of the world perceives him as a geeky loser. The more the world views gaming as a haven of Comic Book Guys, the more Comic Book Guys gaming will produce, reinforcing the world's perception, and so on.

Fortunately, this does suggest at least a partial solution: Stop reinforcing the perception of gaming as the pastime of geeky losers! And by this I do not mean "don't be Comic Book Guy," because most of us aren't, so that advice is not helpful. I mean, stop talking about gamers as if we're all Comic Book Guy. Don't talk like that to the rest of the world; more importantly, don't talk like that to your fellow gamers.

This is something that I see all over the place, both online and in real life. Hell, I've done it myself. People make offhand remarks about what losers we all are, how gamers never get laid, neckbeards and fatbeards and so on and so forth... and if they get called out on it, they protest that it's all in good fun, or they're just talking about a toxic subgroup, or whatever. Which may be true, but doesn't change the fact that every one of these remarks is helping to spawn the next generation of Comic Book Guys.
 

Cergorach

The Laughing One
What I got from the article was that he was writing about roleplayers + internet + internet RPG tools, and I would agree that in that demographic there are a lot of d!cks. Your average roleplayer is the casual player, and that kind of player doesn't spend any time on forums like ENworld or RPG.net (or a legion of similar sites). That casual roleplayer doesn't have much interest in an internet RPG tool, that's where the hardcore gamer comes in.

Hardcore roleplayers (hardcore anything for that matter) have a considerable amount of 'personality' invested in their idea of their hobby. That means that everything that deviates from their idea is going to create resistance from that hardcore roleplayer, wether it's reasonable or not. We've seen it here plenty of times from different edition wars to the most ridiculous flame wars. Folks saying things on the internet that would give them a black eye in the real world, there are Moderators and they have a function.

Now add early adaptor in the mix and you have a very opinionated bunch of folks that probably have very little in common with your actual target audience. Folks that don't care or want to care about the realities of business and the difficulties that go into producing a tool or game.

As for producing 'crap', crap like everything is in the eye of the beholder. I think reality shows are crap (and many with me), they have insane ratings for very little investment, that's a success for the producers and the folks that actually enjoy that kind of thing. There are many sci-fi/fantasy/noir books I really enjoy, but couldn't ever be considered literature, does that mean my enjoyment has no value?

Last week I had a discussion about the Turbine LotRO MMO move from P2P to F2P with someone who, until recently played the MMO 30 hours a week, in Beta and since Beta. He couldn't stop badmouthing the game and the company, but he didn't get that he wasn't Turbine's target audience. The difference between this and the internet RPG tool is that the casual MMO players aren't depended on the opinions of a hardcore player, they probably won't ever see that opinion. But an internet RPG tool requires those hardcore players as it is aimed at them. Not to mention that both are aimed at paying customers.

I would say that the business model was wrong in the first place because it obviously depended on reluctant customers, something you would have found out if more time was spend on research instead of using an idea from another hardcore gamer as a business plan...

As for the whole, "I can get that for free" thing, you often get what you pay for. Free things on the web are either tools to make money in other ways or they are made by fans, fans who have no obligations to continue to publish free material. The RPG business is not exactly a big money maker, if you are, your immensely lucky. If you were as lucky in say IT, you would be making even more money...

I would say that iPhone RPG apps would attract a better kind of customer, owning and using an iPhone means that you have a certain amount of money to spend and an expectation that they'll pay a small fee to use apps then your average Smartphone user. Folks that have 'hacked' their iPhone are folks that you try to avoid.

As an example of how dangerous hardcore fans can be I would like to point out what happened in the Shadowrun community, a group of fans/writers tried to sue the publisher and get the license to make Shadowrun products revoked (so that the group of fans could take over the license). Personally if I was that publisher I would really like to see those fans gone, I wouldn't particularly care about lost sales. What I'm trying to point out is that a very small group of hardcore fans was able to generate an enormous amount of commotion on the internet and reached an enormous amount of fans.
 

nedjer

Adventurer
While it's an amusing piece of scapegoating to blame CBG for marginalising tabletop RPGs, Gareth is so totally twisting your melons :)

There are at least a dozen major factors working together to marginalise tabletop RPGs, including competition from videogames and access to online shared gaming. CBG is the shared responsibility of the group - it's just about possible to make a joke of those hygiene hazards.

The 'my business failed due CGB' :lol: LMAO
 

Rel

Liquid Awesome
I don't see much more of value coming from this thread and I think a few folks are likely to get banned if it continues. So let's just call it a day.
 






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