companies staying away from rpg gamers

Odhanan · Jun 22, 2010

What I see is a hobby which, since its very infancy, has been empowering the user to craft his own materials and take possession of the games sold by game companies. RPGs are, in this respect, very particular products, since they support the user's worlds of imagination, which all but ensures a feeling of ownership on his part.

Basically, to me, complaining that RPG users are too opinionated is simply looking at RPGs the wrong way. It's intrinsic to the nature of the product that a large portion of its audience will be opinionated, and feel empowered by the product itself. Just wishing otherwise is to wish RPGs were not RPGs.

So, either you come up with a marketing model that is based off the product itself, or you transform the product to fit a preset marketing model. This piece reads to me like some sort of rationale for the latter. This is NOT a good thing from my POV.

Erik Mona · Jun 22, 2010

I can think of about 26 full-time employees at Paizo who are probably glad we didn't take this idiot's advice.

--Erik

~ considering that we are not discussing some random person on the internet, but someone who is an ENworlder and posting in this thread, it is certainly NOT appropriate to call him an idiot. Thanks. Plane Sailing ~

Mallus · Jun 22, 2010

Raven Crowking said:
Most hobbies don't teach that sort of critical thinking, which makes people who follow those other hobbies far easier to sell stuff to, regardless of whether or not they need it, and whether or not it is actually useful/of good quality.

I'd put the idea that RPG's teach critical thinking in the same category as believing 'drinking cocktails makes me more handsome'... ie something I certainly feel from time to time, but not, upon reflection, objectively true. Critical thinking, in the context of role-playing games, is kinda like logic in the works of Lewis Carroll, which is to say 'present, rather daft, and almost wholly inapplicable elsewhere'. Unless you consider 'pointing out the deficiencies genre film plots' to be a valuable life-skill...

So, if you would like to be targetted by more marketting, please do not react using critical thinking.

The gist I got was: if you'd like RPG products to be made in the future, or at least to remain influential in new media, be less rabid. The question to my mind is: are the rabid folks really the face of the hobby? I can't say...

It's an interesting article, though not my favorite --the ones about trust and the decline of friendship as reflected in game design are wonderful. My gut response is that the article's spot on, it's convincing, but it doesn't really match up w/my personal experiences.

Raven Crowking · Jun 22, 2010

Mallus said:
I'd put the idea that RPG's teach critical thinking in the same category as believing 'drinking cocktails makes me more handsome'... ie something I certainly feel from time to time, but not, upon reflection, objectively true.

Depends upon the game and players, I guess.

RC

eyebeams · Jun 22, 2010

Erik Mona said:
I can think of about 26 full-time employees at Paizo who are probably glad we didn't take this idiot's advice.

--Erik

My client wasn't a small business.

eyebeams · Jun 22, 2010

Odhanan said:
Basically, to me, complaining that RPG users are too opinionated is simply looking at RPGs the wrong way.

This isn't the complaint. Like I say later on in the discussion, this was encountering online parallels to the bad tipping and library/bookstore theft that has made some face to face businesses wary of gamers. It's not that you are just too REAL for corporate mofos or something. Believe me, there are models out there that can accept and exploit your sense of independence far more thoroughly than I for one would ever desire to.

Erik Mona · Jun 22, 2010

Ok. That doesn't make your observations any less wrong.

--Erik

GMSkarka · Jun 22, 2010

Erik Mona said:
I can think of about 26 full-time employees at Paizo who are probably glad we didn't take this idiot's advice.

Seriously?

His advice is "be nicer people and foster a more positive culture online."

That makes him an idiot?

I'm beyond disappointed in your response, Erik. I'm disgusted.

There's a whole bunch of knee-jerking to this article, which entirely misses the point.

What he's talking about is that the WORST elements of the RPG community, as represented online, is sadly defining the segment for people OUTSIDE the community -- even in those areas where RPGers should be valued.

...and that's a bad thing.

A direct quote from his closing:

"I would really like the tabletop RPG community to be at the center of roleplaying in all media, sharing their insights, but it’s not going to happen unless that center attracts."

The result of saying that? A negative pile-on by the usual suspects... aided and abetted by professionals looking to buff up their populist cred.

Irony, thy name is Gamer.

Crothian · Jun 22, 2010

eyebeams said:
My client wasn't a small business.

So, you're calling Paizo a small business then? And what does that matter?

Sammael · Jun 22, 2010

Objectively, Paizo is a small business. Even though they are currently the number 2 company on the market. Which is saying a whole lot about this industry.

However, to those who maintain that hardcore RPGers can jeopardize your business, I think your business isn't nearly as big as you think it is if a handful of aggravated, oppinionated geeks can jeopardize it.

Also, what's with the unholy fusion of entertainment industries? When was the last time that worked?