companies staying away from rpg gamers
- Thread starter ggroy
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Those are good examples - the Dr. Who game recently was especially aimed at new gamers.
One thing that it needs to work in RPGs is that it has to be *good*. I don't need your specially produced version of Avatar, the RPG. I could reskin 4e, or use Savage Worlds, or any other assortment of game to get the experience. Now if you want to sell me a good looking book with a great system then I might be into it, but I don't need your product.
Personally, I dislike the Cortex system. I love Supernatural, the TV show. So I passed on the licensed product and run Hunter: The Vigil with a few changes and it feels like Sam & Dean the RPG with rules I like.
Again, this is because gaming is a hobby, not an entertainment medium. You aren't giving us pre-constructed mediums, you're giving us tools to create our own. If the property you're pushing doesn't have great tools, we'll use our own.
And tell you about your epic failure. Probably with profanity.
One thing that it needs to work in RPGs is that it has to be *good*. I don't need your specially produced version of Avatar, the RPG. I could reskin 4e, or use Savage Worlds, or any other assortment of game to get the experience. Now if you want to sell me a good looking book with a great system then I might be into it, but I don't need your product.
Personally, I dislike the Cortex system. I love Supernatural, the TV show. So I passed on the licensed product and run Hunter: The Vigil with a few changes and it feels like Sam & Dean the RPG with rules I like.
Again, this is because gaming is a hobby, not an entertainment medium. You aren't giving us pre-constructed mediums, you're giving us tools to create our own. If the property you're pushing doesn't have great tools, we'll use our own.
And tell you about your epic failure. Probably with profanity.
fanboy2000
Adventurer
Sammael, I agree that WotC shouldn't let long time fans of D&D go. What you've suggested seems to be exactly what they're doing. The essentials line is Basic D&D without the rules differences. Plus: two board games are coming out this year, IDW has a D&D comics license, and D&D video games abound. None of these seem to be stepping on anyone's toes. I've never read a D&D novel in my life, and it hasn't seem to impair my enjoyment of the game.
I don't think they're letting the core audience go. I've lots of long time fans on both sides of the current edition debate. I started playing with 2e and I remember people hating 2e and lamenting the demise of 1e. Then 3e came along, and it brought some people back and kept some people. The 3.5 came out, and it brought some people back and kept some people. Then 4e came along, and some people come back and some people stick around. What I think Wizards is doing is trying to attract a wide audience to the main game while keeping long time fans happy. But individual tastes differ, even among the core audience.
I don't think they're letting the core audience go. I've lots of long time fans on both sides of the current edition debate. I started playing with 2e and I remember people hating 2e and lamenting the demise of 1e. Then 3e came along, and it brought some people back and kept some people. The 3.5 came out, and it brought some people back and kept some people. Then 4e came along, and some people come back and some people stick around. What I think Wizards is doing is trying to attract a wide audience to the main game while keeping long time fans happy. But individual tastes differ, even among the core audience.
I'm not sure how much Bioware and DC's efforts are intended as transmedia expressions, rather than just licensed tie-ins. Those are different things, for the most part.
Rel
Liquid Awesome
the second Matrix--minus the rave/orgy scene--is still my favorite of the three.
I'd hate to see this thread turn into any more rave/orgy bashing.
Be NICE, folks.
The problem here is Sturgeon's Law:
STURGEON'S LAW: 90% of everything is crap.
With any kind of new media property, you're rolling the dice. Nine times out of ten, it turns out to be crap*. All of the big media companies understand this and have a system for handling it; new properties are given various kinds of trial runs, and if they don't pan out, they get dumped before they have a chance to cost major money. Usually.
But if you're going to produce a live-action TV show or cartoon with the intent of making it the "core" for D&D... you're harnessing the fate of a tested and successful (if niche) property to one of those untested unknowns. Think now: Do you really want the fate of D&D entrusted to what might, and in fact probably would, turn out to be a repeat of the 2000 "Dungeons and Dragons" movie?
D&D has spun off tie-ins in other media throughout its existence, with varying degrees of success. I dare say if one of them was a big hit, Hasbro would jump on it and make it bigger, and it might end up eclipsing the original game, in the same way that the Dragonlance novels ended up eclipsing the tabletop modules on which they were based. But that's not really something you can plan for.
[size=-2]*While this number may not be exactly correct, Sturgeon's Law applies to statistics too. There's a 90% chance that Sturgeon's Law itself is crap.[/size]
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fanboy2000
Adventurer
Transmedia: The RPG says that location of Metropolis is located in New York state. This fact was not originally stated in the comics but is true for the comics.
Tie-in: The RPG says that the location of Metropolis is located in New York state. The comic completely ignores this and places Metropolis explicitly in Illinois.
It's the degree of integration. I remember when I would watch Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends and wonder why little of what I was watching held true for the comics. If everything takes place in one continuity, I'd call it transmedia. If everything takes place in separate continuities, then I'd call it a tie-in.
I think there's some amount of truth to Malcolm's essay, but I also think it's something rooted in Internet, rather than gaming, culture.
For many people, being angry on the Internet while at work is their hobby. It just happens to piggyback on top of other interests. I remember when I used to review cell phone games*, I knew that any positive review of a game from a big publisher would attract a horde of wrathful posters in the comment section. C'est la guerre.
IMO, the mistake is abandoning an audience. Regardless of what you do, there will be some segment of the Internet that will burst into rage over it. If you gave up because someone on the Internet is angry, you're not going to get anywhere with anything.
*True story: My editor was getting a lot of complaints from publishers about my reviews. From that point forward, they started raising my 1 to 10 scale ratings by a point or two without changing a single word in the review. The complaints stopped.
For many people, being angry on the Internet while at work is their hobby. It just happens to piggyback on top of other interests. I remember when I used to review cell phone games*, I knew that any positive review of a game from a big publisher would attract a horde of wrathful posters in the comment section. C'est la guerre.
IMO, the mistake is abandoning an audience. Regardless of what you do, there will be some segment of the Internet that will burst into rage over it. If you gave up because someone on the Internet is angry, you're not going to get anywhere with anything.
*True story: My editor was getting a lot of complaints from publishers about my reviews. From that point forward, they started raising my 1 to 10 scale ratings by a point or two without changing a single word in the review. The complaints stopped.
Leatherhead
Possibly a Idiot.
This thread reminds me that I hate "gamer culture" and that I hate marketing, especially marketing buzzwords.
In retrospect, I have no idea why I clicked on this thread in the first place and expected anything different.
In retrospect, I have no idea why I clicked on this thread in the first place and expected anything different.
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