Career Guidance Help Please!

Hi Guys and Gals - I need some help. My educational professional career to date has been somewhat aimless and meandering. Good news - I think I know where I want to go now. Bad news - my background does nothing for me.

I have had a hard time figuring out where I want to go or what I want to do. I have a BA in Theatre Arts, which I got because 1) I had no idea what I wanted to major in and 2) I had some idea of doing writing. When I graduated, still having little or no goal or aim, I went into the US Air Force as an Enlisted Computer Programmer for six years. When I finished that I returned to my hometown, home to the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, and have been working at a local military surplus store - fitting as I'm military surplus myself.

As a youth I had attention span issues (ADD) and no taste for note-taking, and little self-discipline. I still struggle with these, but have matured slightly since then. I always was fascinated with the sciences, and loved learning about them, but due to my distaste for note-taking assumed that I could never do that professionally and shied away from calculus and the sciences academically with a passion.

Lately I've been reevaluating myself. I love thinking my way through problems, puzzling on things and trying to find the how's and why's of things. I like order. My favorite parts of my job as a sales associate are inventory (i.e. detailed note-taking) and the creative problem solving helping customers find things to meet their needs when they need something unusual and we don't have exactly what they're seeking. These are the exact traits that the sciences require. Thinking on various types of science, the ones that appeal most are physics and astronomy. I took one Astronomy course in college - and it was one of the few A's I got, and a relatively easy A as well. I loved it and took to it like a fish to water, even as a Theatre major - perhaps I should have taken this as a sign.

My dilemma now is that I want to move towards a career in physics or astronomy, probably as a researcher and/or professor - even though I have exactly ZERO background for it.

On the plus side, I have the Illinois Veterans Grant and the GI Bill to help me pay for schooling.

UIUC (University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign) doesn't do a second bachelors - which is the direction I'm afraid I'll have to go to get the necessary background before continuing onto Masters/Doctorate work. EIU (Eastern Illinois University - in Charleston, IL) will do a second bachelors, though there is a bit of a commute involved.

Any tips or advice out there for someone like me who's wanting to do a pretty much 180 degree career change?

Thanks for the help!

Trev went to UIUC. Maybe he'd have some thoughts on the matter. I'll drop him a line with a link to this thread. Good luck.

While I'm flattered by the mention, Mark, I'm by no means an expert on anything!

If you're really looking for a career change and don't think that your major will be able to help you, it might be worthwhile to check out Parkland or another community college before you try to dive into a big school, and take a few classes related to what you DO want to go into. There are probably advisors there that can better help you focus your studies, your time, and your money. On top of that, you'll also get a preview of the sorts of things you might be facing in terms of math, science, and other potentially rusty skills.

Best of luck on all of your career and educational endeavors!

Career changes, even drastic ones, are fairly common, really. I wouldn't worry about that part.

If you have found what you want to do and you are sure about it... commuting should be the smallest of your obstacles.

You mention Computer Programming... have you thought about going further into that direction (i.e. Software Engineering)? Maybe you could even combine the two. Just a thought.

Bye
Thanee

Well, as a physicist trying to get a faculty position at a university, I feel like I've got a bit to say, but I don't have time right at the moment. I'll come back later! A question first: How much math have you taken? In particular, how's your calculus and have you taken any math classes more advanced than that?

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I too spent some time wandering, but never entered the service. I'm currently working on my 2nd bachelors right now.

Right out of high school I attended college at Idaho State U and majored in Anthropology, but spent a great deal of time in the theatre department (not enough in the classroom to earn a minor, however). Like you, I didn't have a very good idea of what I wanted and mostly settled on Anthropology because the classes were fun. I later discovered that the actual work of an anthropologist wasn't suited to my personality, so after graduation I drifted between various odd jobs, acting gigs, and educational periods.

Finally I realized (it seems obvious now) that I suffered from depression that kept me from fully realizing my potential . . . I always shied away from decisions that were risky but might lead to success . . . and decided that I wanted a career, and I wanted to be a science teacher. So I'm back in school earning my 2nd degree in Earth Sciences Education along with my teaching certificate.

The advice above about attending a community college for a few years is a good one to save money . . . but if you GI Bill will cover all/most of your expenses you might just go straight to university. The thing to remember is because your making such a drastic change, as I did, you're going to spend some serious time "catching up" on undergraduate classes that you could have taken the first time around, but didn't because you were a theatre major. All the 100 and 200 level science and math courses will add time to your experience. Most people think, "Oh, 2nd bachelors? That'll take you 2 years!" More like the full four. And if you don't go in with a carefully selected degree plan, you'll add more time as you stumble through the course catalog and miss courses on rotation or take courses that aren't required for your degree.

Heh, can you tell I'm speaking from experience? Of course, money isn't a big deal because of your veteran's benefits, that releases some pressure. That leaves time! Do you care how long it takes, or are you eager to get through your degree and get into a job? If time is important, be extra careful to learn your degree requirements backwards and forwards, as well as course rotations so you can carefully plan your time at university. Meet with an academic advisor before you register for classes, but don't rely on your advisor to hand you the perfect degree plan!!!

I had a buddy with a crappy advisor (good guy, great teacher, but crappy advisor) who had him thinking he was earning a BS rather than a BA, and so my buddy found out he needed to take a language at the 11th hour, because he relied on his advisor and didn't do his own homework.

Cool! I started in Phys/Astro, myself. To be a researcher &/or prof, you have to get a degree, ie, go back to school and get the BS, with grad studies after that, unless you'd like to go the technician route. In your position, and as others have suggested, i'd recommend getting the fundamental math and physics at a community college (especially the math), so you have a solid foundation for the classes at university and to help narrow down your options & focus your interests.

Seriously think about working as a research assistant for a prof who does something that sounds interesting to you after you've got a couple semesters of physics under your belt. That's the best way to get a feel for nature of the work, data reduction, familiarizing with relevant software, and all that. Even if you're not a student at the same school, you might still get some exposure just by volunteering your time (if you have that luxury, and can find a cooperative prof). Really, even more so than the coursework, the lab is where the real skills are, and where you're going to see if it's what you want to do as a career. It will also get you an academic letter of recommendation, and ideally your name on a publication or two-- both of which are necessary for advancing on to graduate studies.

Imxp, the academic physics/astro route is a long, tough slog. But it's definitely worth it for some; and provides a lot of skills & knowledge to anyone who gets into the field, useful stuff that's easily leveraged in lots of other ways, even if they don't actually end up in academia or research (like me ).

Thanee said:

You mention Computer Programming... have you thought about going further into that direction (i.e. Software Engineering)? Maybe you could even combine the two. Just a thought.

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I'm biochemistry/bioengineering, so don't take this as gospel. My understanding is that a computer programming/engineering degree (or experience) is fairly valuable to a physics/astronomy degree.

To vulcan_idic - from the way you're describing yourself, it sounds like you'd do pretty well in some sort of applied physics (astronomy, for example), versus the theoretical stuff. My recommendation would be to take a bit of chemistry as well. Again, I'm a bio-geek, but it seems to me that a lot of the research going on in astronomy has some basis in chemistry (ex, the possible implications of anthracene bands detected recently). It can't hurt to understand a little bit.

While your college may not do second BA/BS (immature giggle here), the good news is that you most likely* will only have to take the courses for the major, and not all the secondary stuff. That will make it a little easier to get the degree part-time, if need be. I wouldn't be in a rush to get it all done at once; plan on it being a few years. Of course, your mileage will vary.

Either way, good luck! It's a scary thing, but I think you'll be happy you did it.

* I don't want to say 100%. Who knows what stupidity lurks in the hearts of college administration?

You've already gotten some good advice here, I think.

the_orc_within said:

Cool! I started in Phys/Astro, myself. To be a researcher &/or prof, you have to get a degree, ie, go back to school and get the BS, with grad studies after that, unless you'd like to go the technician route. In your position, and as others have suggested, i'd recommend getting the fundamental math and physics at a community college (especially the math), so you have a solid foundation for the classes at university and to help narrow down your options & focus your interests.

Click to expand...

As the_orc_within says, you're definitely looking at grad school if you want to go into college-level teaching or research. For community college teaching and some research positions you can stop with a MS degree, but a 4 year college professor and most research positions will require a PhD.

I'm not sure myself whether taking your introductory classes at a community college or university would be better. Probably you should do whatever will be more comfortable and help you learn more, since it seems like you can get it paid for. You should definitely make calculus your first course along with a calculus-based intro physics course (they're usually designed with calculus as a co-requisite rather than pre-req).

Seriously think about working as a research assistant for a prof who does something that sounds interesting to you after you've got a couple semesters of physics under your belt. That's the best way to get a feel for nature of the work, data reduction, familiarizing with relevant software, and all that. Even if you're not a student at the same school, you might still get some exposure just by volunteering your time (if you have that luxury, and can find a cooperative prof). Really, even more so than the coursework, the lab is where the real skills are, and where you're going to see if it's what you want to do as a career. It will also get you an academic letter of recommendation, and ideally your name on a publication or two-- both of which are necessary for advancing on to graduate studies.

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This is extremely important advice. I've seen some good students have trouble with grad school applications because they didn't have research experience. The good news for you is that, with your programming experience, you may be able to contribute to some projects right away.

Imxp, the academic physics/astro route is a long, tough slog. But it's definitely worth it for some; and provides a lot of skills & knowledge to anyone who gets into the field, useful stuff that's easily leveraged in lots of other ways, even if they don't actually end up in academia or research (like me ).

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This is all true. As I said before, you're most likely looking at grad school. And if you decide you want to be a university professor, probably several years of postdoctoral research. But there are a lot of research jobs available in industry for people with a background in experimental physics (including most of astrophysics).

LightPhoenix said:

I'm biochemistry/bioengineering, so don't take this as gospel. My understanding is that a computer programming/engineering degree (or experience) is fairly valuable to a physics/astronomy degree.

Click to expand...

It definitely can be. The problem-solving mindset is the important commonality; I've known several people to start in engineering and end up in physics. More directly, some experimental fields really do involve computing and electronic engineering (and even some theoretical physics does too).

To vulcan_idic - from the way you're describing yourself, it sounds like you'd do pretty well in some sort of applied physics (astronomy, for example), versus the theoretical stuff. My recommendation would be to take a bit of chemistry as well. Again, I'm a bio-geek, but it seems to me that a lot of the research going on in astronomy has some basis in chemistry (ex, the possible implications of anthracene bands detected recently). It can't hurt to understand a little bit.

Click to expand...

Thanee said:

You mention Computer Programming... have you thought about going further into that direction (i.e. Software Engineering)? Maybe you could even combine the two. Just a thought.

Click to expand...

I think the message here is to keep an open mind about what you want to do. As you get into the coursework, physics and astronomy may or may not turn out to be what you enjoy. And it's also true that interdisciplinary work is becoming more and more important.

LightPhoenix said:

While your college may not do second BA/BS (immature giggle here), the good news is that you most likely* will only have to take the courses for the major, and not all the secondary stuff. That will make it a little easier to get the degree part-time, if need be. I wouldn't be in a rush to get it all done at once; plan on it being a few years. Of course, your mileage will vary.

Click to expand...

It's possible that you wouldn't actually need a BA or BS in physics, as long as you take the classes and can get good recommendation letters (and a decent GRE score), depending on where you want to go for graduate school. UIUC has a good graduate program in physics, so you might try asking a professor there whether you'd need the actual degree to get into the PhD program at UIUC.

In any case, I hope you find learning physics and astronomy a rewarding experience! I sure did.