A few monk questions and a L7 monk build looking for thoughts.

brehobit · Jul 15, 2010

The "rain of hammers" ki focus states that "whenever you reduce an enemy to 0 hit points or fewer, one enemy adjacent to you takes damage equal to 2+ this focus's enhancement bonus damage" First of all, what the heck is this bonus damage. Bonus to what? Also, can this power trigger itself?

The blurred strike ki focus says you can "use your Flurry of Blows power an additional time during your turn, but the two uses of that power must be triggered by two different attacks..." Are two different attack rolls (say with a burst attack) two different attacks? What about something that gives you attacks against multiple opponents?

There are no superior ki focus implements? Seems an odd oversight.

The monk utilities seem to suck pretty badly. At level 2 they are horrible (best one gets you the same power as a level 2 item). Level 6 is bad. Anyone find anything good to take with these?

Finally, here's my level 7 monk for a delve. Thoughts? He focuses on having a reasonable AC, good attack bonuses and maxing out his flurry of blows (11 points of damage I think).

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 7
Half-Orc, Monk
Build: Stone Fist Monk
Monastic Tradition: Stone Fist
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Unarmed)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Ki Focuses)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 13, Dex 20, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 8.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 15, Con 13, Dex 17, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 8.

AC: 24 Fort: 20 Reflex: 21 Will: 17
HP: 60 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 15

TRAINED SKILLS
Stealth +13, Perception +8, Acrobatics +14, Athletics +12

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +3, Bluff +2, Diplomacy +2, Dungeoneering +3, Endurance +6, Heal +3, History +3, Insight +3, Intimidate +4, Nature +3, Religion +3, Streetwise +2, Thievery +8

FEATS
Level 1: Crashing Tempest Style
Level 2: Unarmored Agility
Level 4: Toughness
Level 6: Versatile Expertise

POWERS
Monk at-will 1: Five Storms
Monk at-will 1: Dragon's Tail
Monk encounter 1: Rising Storm
Monk daily 1: Masterful Spiral
Monk utility 2: Bounding Leap
Monk encounter 3: Eternal Mountain
Monk daily 5: One Hundred Leaves
Monk utility 6: Centered Defense
Monk encounter 7: Fist of One Hundred Strikes

ITEMS
Monk Unarmed Strike, Ki Club +1, Rain of Hammers Ki Focus +2, Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) of Resistance +2, Amulet of Protection +2, Acrobat Boots (heroic tier)

No Name · Jul 15, 2010

For Rain of Hammers, I think they mean the enchancement bonus of the ki focus. A +3 Rain of Hammers ki focus should let you do 5 damage to an adjacent enemy. Looks like it can trigger itself.

The way we rule seperate attacks is by the number of damage rolls. So Five Storms wouldn't be seperate attacks (only 1 damage roll), but Spinning Leopard Maneuver or Twin Strike would be seperate attacks.

There's no point in having both Unarmed and Ki Focuses for Versatile Expertise. They won't stack. Keep the Ki Focus and switch Unarmed to something else (maybe Mace for your club or Light Blade for a shuriken).

Bungo_Underhill · Jul 15, 2010

Unfortunately the low level monk utilities are much better for centered breath builds. I still think purifying meditation can be pretty useful, even with out a bonus to the roll, especially as its an encounter power.

If you'd consider training endurance in something elses place Invigorating Presence is a pretty good 2nd lvl utility, although it doesn't scale.

mysticknight232 · Jul 15, 2010

I agree that your versatile expertise isn't chosen correctly. I would also choose club and ki focus for that feat. The only time you will ever use an unarmed attack is for a MBA. But since you've chosen the club feat and have a +1 club, you might as well use that for MBA. Therefore, choose that as one of your versatile expertise choices to gain an additional +1 TH. In the same way, I feel that you do not need a Ki Club +1 and a Ki Focus +2. You will only be able to use one of them per attack. Since you've chosen the Crashing Tempest Style feat, you will need to deliver your attacks through your club anyway. I believe you can simply use the Ki Focus and a standard club to take advantage of this feat since both bonuses will not stack.

Edit: As far as the lvl 2 utility power is concerned, I feel that the Acrobatics Skill "You stand up" is the best available. Not sure exactly what it's called, but as a minor action, it allows you to stand up after being knocked prone. Amazingly handy for a striker.

Brys · Jul 15, 2010

The acrobat boots have an at-will that let you stand from prone as a minor (easily one of the "best-value" magic items, imho), so he doesn't need a utility for that.

brehobit · Jul 15, 2010

Thanks folks,
I'll look at the utility powers later, but yeah, purifying meditation is probably worth taking.

I agree the versatile expertise could be improved, but I'm not sure club is the way to go. For a MBA won't I always be better off with the unarmed attack (more damage, better attack bonus as the totem applies?). Light blade for shuriken does seem like a good idea though, I'd not considered it.

I took the magic club because it appears it gives me +2 damage on a flurry even if I use the unarmed attack. Same with the feat for a total of a +4 damage bonus. I took the focus because it helps with the MBA and it has a nice property. Seems like getting both properties is good.

Finally, on Rain of Hammers. Say I'm surrounded by minions and drop one. I activate the (at-will!) power of the ki focus and do 4 points of damage (with the +2 focus) to a minion. He dies and I then get to activate it again and again and again. So this focus lets you kill every adjacent minion as long as you can hit (and thus kill) one? Seems handy. And just doing an extra 4 points of damage 1 or 2 times a combat (which seems likely) seems quite powerful even if there are no minions about. So I just thought I'd confirm that's what it does. The "bonus" at the end of the description made threw me and thus made me think that I might be missing something.

Thanks again!

mysticknight232 · Jul 15, 2010

Brys said:
The acrobat boots have an at-will that let you stand from prone as a minor (easily one of the "best-value" magic items, imho), so he doesn't need a utility for that.

I completely agree with you, in fact my lvl 3 LFR Monk just purchased these boots so I will be retraining out of the utility power. However, he was asking for utility powers and that one is a great lvl 2 utility power assuming he hasn't purchased the boots or doesn't want/have the money to spend on the boots.

mysticknight232 · Jul 15, 2010

brehobit said:
Thanks folks,
I'll look at the utility powers later, but yeah, purifying meditation is probably worth taking.

I agree the versatile expertise could be improved, but I'm not sure club is the way to go. For a MBA won't I always be better off with the unarmed attack (more damage, better attack bonus as the totem applies?). Light blade for shuriken does seem like a good idea though, I'd not considered it.

I took the magic club because it appears it gives me +2 damage on a flurry even if I use the unarmed attack. Same with the feat for a total of a +4 damage bonus. I took the focus because it helps with the MBA and it has a nice property. Seems like getting both properties is good.

Finally, on Rain of Hammers. Say I'm surrounded by minions and drop one. I activate the (at-will!) power of the ki focus and do 4 points of damage (with the +2 focus) to a minion. He dies and I then get to activate it again and again and again. So this focus lets you kill every adjacent minion as long as you can hit (and thus kill) one? Seems handy. And just doing an extra 4 points of damage 1 or 2 times a combat (which seems likely) seems quite powerful even if there are no minions about. So I just thought I'd confirm that's what it does. The "bonus" at the end of the description made threw me and thus made me think that I might be missing something.

Thanks again!

I personally skipped the magic ki focuses altogether and instead am attuning myself with a magical spear and using that as my Ki Focus. I selected a spear in order to take the Pointed Step Style Feat and because I will gain the enhancement bonus of my magical spear when I make MBA. If you have a basic weapon or just use your unarmed attack for a MBA, you will not gain the enhancement bonus of your Ki Focus.

That being said, the only reason you would need a +1 club is for MBA. They won't stack for Monk powers, you can either use one or the other to deliver your attacks and since your ki focus is a +2, you'd use that all the time (I assume). Technically you are still delivering your strike through your club, you're just not using the magical enhancement of the club. Therefore, a +1 club is not needed except for MBA. This is also why you might as well add the expertise to the club instead of unarmed because you will never gain enhancement bonuses to unarmed MBA attacks.

Another reason why I went with a magic weapon over a magic ki implement is because your unarmed MBA does not gain the benefit of your Ki Focus because a MBA does not have the implement keyword in it. Therefore, you will only gain +3 proficiency plus your Str modifier whenever you make a MBA. Because I took a magical spear, I'll be able to count the enhancement bonus towards the attack, which over time will be better than unarmed strike.

Now, if you took the +1 club just for MBA, then by all means good job. But just remember that you can either use the +1 club or the +2 ki focus to determine your TH and dmg modifiers for Monk powers, but not both.

brehobit · Jul 15, 2010

mysticknight232 said:
If you have a basic weapon or just use your unarmed attack for a MBA, you will not gain the enhancement bonus of your Ki Focus.

I don't have the books in front of me, but I'd swear that a monk got to use his ki focus on unarmed attacks. I thought it was in the unarmed attack description.

That being said, the only reason you would need a +1 club is for MBA. They won't stack for Monk powers, you can either use one or the other to deliver your attacks and since your ki focus is a +2, you'd use that all the time (I assume). Technically you are still delivering your strike through your club, you're just not using the magical enhancement of the club. Therefore, a +1 club is not needed except for MBA. This is also why you might as well add the expertise to the club instead of unarmed because you will never gain enhancement bonuses to unarmed MBA attacks.

I think I got lost in here somewhere, let me explain what I'm shooting for. The club's magical property is that when wielded it grants a +2 damage bonus to the flurry. I also have a feat that grants a similar +2 bonus to flurry damage if I'm wielding a mace. So that's a total of +4 to flurry damage. That's why I have the mace, not for it's actual properties. As it stands the item would be level 3 forever...

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Am I missing something? Does my plan not work for some reason?

Larrin · Jul 15, 2010

from the monk section on Ki focuses

You can also add its enhancement bonus to the attack rolls and the damage rolls of weapon attacks you make using a weapon with which you’re proficient.

and yes, it also explicitly mentions using Ki focus with your unarmed attack.