Character Direction and Meta-gaming

Oni · Oct 25, 2002

I heard a lot of people talk about how bad meta-gaming is, even in regards to planning a characters career path.

Do you think it is poor form for a player to design a character to reach a certain end? Do you think it is ok for the player to choose skills and feats and attempt to meet other prereqs to qualify for a prestige class the character may not necessarily know the prereqs. What's more important, the players vision of the character, or keeping the character untainted by out of game influences?

arwink · Oct 25, 2002

I usually don't see a problem where meta-gaming and character paths are concerned. While a player may be sitting down and going through the motions of learning the archery feats and spells for an arcane archer (for example), it's not that great a leap to envision the young elvish PC honing his skills in a way that will eventually lead to his acceptance in the princes elite Elissandiir academy, where the elvish love of magic and archery are melded and perfected.

There are often certain story implications in meta-game thinking, and it's usually a case of bringing it to the fore rather than decrying it as evil.

hong · Oct 25, 2002

Oni said:
I heard a lot of people talk about how bad meta-gaming is, even in regards to planning a characters career path.

A lot of people talk too much.

Do you think it is poor form for a player to design a character to reach a certain end?

No.

Do you think it is ok for the player to choose skills and feats and attempt to meet other prereqs to qualify for a prestige class the character may not necessarily know the prereqs.

Yes.

What's more important, the players vision of the character, or keeping the character untainted by out of game influences?

The player has a vision for their character. The task of the DM is to integrate that vision into their own vision for the campaign.

If a player wants prestige class X, then (assuming prestige class X exists in the game world) my job as a DM is to order events in such a way that it seems natural and reasonable for the character to gain that class during the course of the campaign. Example: one of the players in my Britannia 3E campaign wants to become a Singh rager (prestige class from OA). He's planned out his feats and skills so that he can take the class at 8th level. He's currently 5th level, and has just recently met a retired, ex-rager in the town of Skara Brae. After a tough adventure fighting off some monsters, the rager has been impressed by the PC's skills, and has offered to train him. Thus in-game verisimilitude is maintained, and out-of-game player satisfaction is achieved.

I hope, anyway.

BigFreekinGoblinoid · Oct 25, 2002

arwink said:
I usually don't see a problem where meta-gaming and character paths are concerned. While a player may be sitting down and going through the motions of learning the archery feats and spells for an arcane archer (for example), it's not that great a leap to envision the young elvish PC honing his skills in a way that will eventually lead to his acceptance in the princes elite Elissandiir academy, where the elvish love of magic and archery are melded and perfected.

There are often certain story implications in meta-game thinking, and it's usually a case of bringing it to the fore rather than decrying it as evil.

yeppers - what arwink said

Severe min-maxing for initial char gen is a different story though...

Umbran · Oct 25, 2002

I'll pipe in with a middle of the road, "That depends."

If a character's original concept has him heading in a certain direction - the character always wanted to be "X", and has worked hard to become that, I don't see a problem with it. I'm not terribly happy when the player doesn't play out that dedication. I'm disappointed, but not really upset.

If, however, a character continues on a path against all logic, I start having problems. Planning out character development is one thing. Sticking to a highly detailed plan without regard to campaign events irks me. Characters should not only follow the plan, they should adapt and respond to events as well.

hong · Oct 25, 2002

BigFreekinGoblinoid said:
Severe min-maxing for initial char gen is a different story though...

I think Derek (Taloncomics guy) said he had a DM once who had a big rubber stamp with BOGUS on it. If he saw a character that was twinked beyond reasonable limits, it got the stamp.

If you're reading this Derek, I'm still game to buy one....

Ravellion · Oct 25, 2002

Umbran said:
Characters should not only follow the plan, they should adapt and respond to events as well.

But that happens very rarely in my experience, especially if this would mean later access to a prestige class (people often want the front loaded prestige class benefits ASAP). I've met on eplyer who did this in three years of D&D with I think slightly more than 20 players.

Rav

Arnwyn · Oct 25, 2002

I feel the same way as Umbran. I don't mind at all if players have a "vision" for their character (in fact, I'm impressed) - but logic plays a *very* important role.

There is a further caveat to this. In the case of prestige classes, if I don't see it in the player's roleplaying, he/she's not getting the prestige class. Period.

Player: I'm trying to become an Alienist.

DM: Ah, I see you have an interest and affinity with strange beings from a dimension far beyond ours.

Player: Whosthiswiththewhatnow?

DM: *sigh*

Oni · Oct 25, 2002

Umbran said:
If, however, a character continues on a path against all logic, I start having problems. Planning out character development is one thing. Sticking to a highly detailed plan without regard to campaign events irks me. Characters should not only follow the plan, they should adapt and respond to events as well.

How do you strike a balance between character altering events and allowing the player to do what they wanted to. At what point does the verisimilitude of you campaign take precedence over the players vision of their character.

hong · Oct 25, 2002

Oni said:
How do you strike a balance between character altering events and allowing the player to do what they wanted to. At what point does the verisimilitude of you campaign take precedence over the players vision of their character.

For me, verisimilitude comes in what prestige classes are allowed in the campaign, and how they fit into the world. No alienists or oozemasters in my current game, for instance (sorry, Crothian). Once these things are decided on, the players can go hog-wild.

Character Direction and Meta-gaming

Oni

First Post

arwink

Clockwork Golem

hong

WotC's bitch

BigFreekinGoblinoid

First Post

Umbran

Mod Squad

hong

WotC's bitch

Ravellion

serves Gnome Master

Arnwyn

First Post

Oni

First Post

hong

WotC's bitch

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