WotC is Listening

Orcus Porkus · Aug 8, 2010

re: treasure parcels, what's really needed is a DM software (preferrably being part of a larger DM software package, hahahaha, dreaming, I know) that takes players' wishlists into account, and helps the DM to keep a balance of items and gold handed out to the group, including different systems to divide treasure (gold) and how to deal with absent players.
We are closing in on the end of our campaign, now at level 27, and it's been one of the most annoying things for everybody to keep track of fair distribution of gold, items (from wishlists - nothing else matters anyway - you can as well give gold if you give an item that's not wanted), and absent players. With the new rare items this becomes more of an issue than ever before.

AngryMojo · Aug 8, 2010

Henry said:
Since Treasure Parcels don't seem to be gettin' much love across several of these threads, I might as well go on record as saying:

I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE the treasure parcel system.

I'm with you on this. Once you get the hang of it, it's much more balanced and much easier than rolling randomly, or coming up with everything yourself. I had something like this in 3.5 for a while. My PC's didn't notice, but I sure as hell did.

Neonchameleon · Aug 8, 2010

Treasure Parcels are like skill challenges. Great for the DM - as long as the players don't notice and exploit that they are being used.

Zaphling · Aug 8, 2010

Like.

Styracosaurus · Aug 8, 2010

Mistakes are bad things.
Errata is a good thing. (Especially free errata).

This new approach to magic item distribution kills a sacred cow that I never even recognized before now.

I don't know if WotC really goes after the Pathfinder/ OD&D crowd.

They are writing books that will impact my budget and that makes WotC glad and my wife sad.

AbdulAlhazred · Aug 8, 2010

Neonchameleon said:
Treasure Parcels are like skill challenges. Great for the DM - as long as the players don't notice and exploit that they are being used.

How do they 'exploit' it? All parcels really do is give you an 'envelope' within which overall treasure distribution should ideally fall. The specific parcels are really unimportant, though they are handy in a situation where you happen to be winging it. It's the general idea that X amount of treasure is designed to be appropriate to keeping the power level within the designed PC power curve.

Of course I don't see any reason why a random treasure table can't work within that concept, except that unusable treasures are relatively worthless. If you are going to use random treasure then you need to also ditch the 20% rule. I don't think the 20% rule is so important to the general concept that you HAVE to use it to make the general concept work though. The DM may however need another way to discourage unseemly looting behavior (or just accept it and play in a more 'AD&Desque' style).

It is kind of hard to judge what item rarity really means without more information. If Enchant Item can only make common items though then there STILL needs to be some mechanism for making the uncommon and rare items. Epic level PCs are about the pinnacle of power in the mortal world, so its hard to find a logic for how these items exist except "really powerful guys make them". Sure, maybe rare items are simply things that nobody knows HOW to make, but again you'd have to expect that epic PCs are exactly who WOULD have that kind of capability.

I'd think that what will have to end up happening is that uncommon items require some additional hoops to be gone through to make them, and rare items probably require very specific conditions under which they can be made. This all might devolve down to either a level based set of restrictions or specific rituals that are required for specific items, etc. Lots of DMs already implement these kinds of things anyhow, so we'll just have to see how this is actually implemented to see how well it works.

A nice parcel tracking system is indeed quite handy. Personally I found that it was pretty easy to implement as a spreadsheet, though I'm still perfecting exactly what the best way to present that information is.

I'm A Banana · Aug 8, 2010

The parcels are great for organization.

It still takes me forever to come up with items for my PC's, though, because they don't make wishlists (I personally am not a fan of that metagame concept anyway), and I can't be bothered to figure out what magical wand is right for which character.

So I'd just like to be able to randomly generate magic items, potions, and even "things of value" (thanks, Draconomicon 1!). They can mesh up with the parcels for all I care. I don't mind rolling a random Level 7 Magic Item, and putting it in the "you get a Level 7 Magic Item" parcel in the slightest!

AbdulAlhazred · Aug 8, 2010

Kamikaze Midget said:
The parcels are great for organization.

It still takes me forever to come up with items for my PC's, though, because they don't make wishlists (I personally am not a fan of that metagame concept anyway), and I can't be bothered to figure out what magical wand is right for which character.

So I'd just like to be able to randomly generate magic items, potions, and even "things of value" (thanks, Draconomicon 1!). They can mesh up with the parcels for all I care. I don't mind rolling a random Level 7 Magic Item, and putting it in the "you get a Level 7 Magic Item" parcel in the slightest!

I've used a mix of approaches. Sometimes I get a player to express a desire for a certain item or at least they'll say they would like something that helps them do X and I can probably come up with something. Another approach is to just keep upgrading their existing items (you can easily make this fun and interesting). You can also give away a whole chunk of residuum now and then and let them make whatever they want.

jbear · Aug 8, 2010

I've had the sensation WotC has been sensitive to player feedback from the getgo. PHB2... DMG 2... etc etc. I think the difference is now there is someone at the helm with the vision of how to add these desired features to the game without putting his foot in it and stepping on already happy customers toes. I think they have reached a stage where they can now see how they can alter the system without unstabilising it.

They fully deserve the positive feedback for their constant hardwork and dedication to making the new edition as awesome as it can possibly be, emending their errors and learning from their mistakes. Not to mention for keeping their cool in the face of some pretty venomous criticism.

The Little Raven · Aug 8, 2010

Kamikaze Midget said:
The parcels are great for organization.

It still takes me forever to come up with items for my PC's, though, because they don't make wishlists (I personally am not a fan of that metagame concept anyway), and I can't be bothered to figure out what magical wand is right for which character.

So I'd just like to be able to randomly generate magic items, potions, and even "things of value" (thanks, Draconomicon 1!). They can mesh up with the parcels for all I care. I don't mind rolling a random Level 7 Magic Item, and putting it in the "you get a Level 7 Magic Item" parcel in the slightest!

Honestly, you should give wishlists a try, just to see if it makes it easier on you. Let your players know upfront that a wishlist does not guarantee they will get the item, it's just an aid for you to know what type of items the player is leaning towards. I do wishlists, and and randomly select 1 in 4 items (which can sometimes lead to some interesting new character developments).

And the FRCG also had some cool "things of value," as well. Maztican chili peppers (dried and becoming more rare by the year), a strand of Mystra's hair, one of the black iron keys reputed to unlock Cyric's chains on the Supreme Throne.... etc.