WotC is Listening

Greatwyrm · Aug 9, 2010

Rechan said:
I think this is a great sign. That we are being heard and they are working (slowly but surely) to not just make the game better, but to make it better when we ask for it.

They do listen and they do try to continually improve the game. The problem is the section of the community that beats the crap out of them every time they do listen.

Players: Hey, you guys need to print books with errata and give PHB1 races the PHB3 treatment.

WotC: Okay. Here are these Essentials books.

Subset of Players: Waaaaaggghh! 4.5! 4.5!

To be honest, I don't know how these guys put up with it. Must be all the money and babes.

FireLance · Aug 9, 2010

non-combat options like Blacksmith professions that don’t cost feats to acquire

This caught my eye. I haven't missed crafting, but I know there are people who have, and I'm happy for them.

Garthanos · Aug 9, 2010

FireLance said:
This caught my eye. I haven't missed crafting, but I know there are people who have, and I'm happy for them.

Oh they didnt like writing up a background that featured them being raised by a craftsman and being fascinated by it to the point of achieving a masters token at a very early age in that the craft and moving on to three others that they similarly aced then being pulled away from this life of basket weaving and cake baking to do adventuring? Must be wargamers ;p

ExploderWizard · Aug 9, 2010

Henry said:
Since Treasure Parcels don't seem to be gettin' much love across several of these threads, I might as well go on record as saying:

I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE the treasure parcel system.

I don't mind alternate systems, but the treasure parcels are the FIRST time I've ever been able to properly gauge the wealth I'm handing out to my players without over or under-guessing. This whole "having one lump sum" thing and guesstimating how much I've given out over 5 or six sessions doesn't cut it for me. But striking off of a numbered list 1 to 10, and then just divvying up the wealth listed there in various creative ways, is a godsend to me.

Dole out all the alternate systems you want, just don't get rid of the treasure parcel idea in the future entirely, WotC!

Parcels I can live with or without. They don't play well with freeform sandbox campaigns. How will I know how much adventuring/# of encounters will happen between levels? This depends on the motivation and actions of the PC's. I don't much care for the system telling me that a PC group shall have goodies = to X at a given level either. A very successful party could have even more and a not-so-lucky party could have quite a bit less.

dvvega · Aug 9, 2010

ExploderWizard said:
Parcels I can live with or without. They don't play well with freeform sandbox campaigns. How will I know how much adventuring/# of encounters will happen between levels? This depends on the motivation and actions of the PC's. I don't much care for the system telling me that a PC group shall have goodies = to X at a given level either. A very successful party could have even more and a not-so-lucky party could have quite a bit less.

I agree that freeform sandbox campaigns (as most of mine are) do not work with the parcel systems.

I do not have an issue with the monetary parcel idea. In fact it is a great idea to keep your power creep under control, however the magic item based on character wish list does mess up the concept of killing someone and claiming their magic item as your own - "Oh this sword? Well let me tell you of Gorgoth and how I beheaded him and claimed Hithran (lifts sword to reflect light)"

Due to the way the monsters are built/statted/etc, the magic items are just sitting around. If there is a sword with poison damage, what monster isn't going to take advantage of it? I have not liked it since playing my party through 10th level (about to hit Paragon). It stinks.

The only option I have come up with is dole out extra money instead of magic items - you have more control over what they can purchase by controlling the stores and their contents, thus they must travel to a larger city to find whatever they wish. However this creates a weight problem with carrying all that money around.

In addition it does not encourage the use of consumables as they are seen as below par. If I dish out healing potions instead of money I get complaints because I am essentially buying something with their money as opposed to letting them purchase what they want.

D

AbdulAlhazred · Aug 9, 2010

dvvega said:
I agree that freeform sandbox campaigns (as most of mine are) do not work with the parcel systems.

I do not have an issue with the monetary parcel idea. In fact it is a great idea to keep your power creep under control, however the magic item based on character wish list does mess up the concept of killing someone and claiming their magic item as your own - "Oh this sword? Well let me tell you of Gorgoth and how I beheaded him and claimed Hithran (lifts sword to reflect light)"

Due to the way the monsters are built/statted/etc, the magic items are just sitting around. If there is a sword with poison damage, what monster isn't going to take advantage of it? I have not liked it since playing my party through 10th level (about to hit Paragon). It stinks.

The only option I have come up with is dole out extra money instead of magic items - you have more control over what they can purchase by controlling the stores and their contents, thus they must travel to a larger city to find whatever they wish. However this creates a weight problem with carrying all that money around.

In addition it does not encourage the use of consumables as they are seen as below par. If I dish out healing potions instead of money I get complaints because I am essentially buying something with their money as opposed to letting them purchase what they want.

D

I've always run a very sandbox style of game. I don't have problems with parcels. Generally it makes perfectly good sense for a group of monsters to have some cash and maybe a potion or two. Now and then you have a monster with an item or two. Maybe they can use it, maybe they can't (after all a lot of monsters can't really use items). Often it will be found in some nest or lair with the leg bone of some earlier and less fortunate PC. Most good items though are (logically enough) held by various patrons, etc. Now and then there IS one that some monster can use, the rules NEVER said that can't happen. They just say monsters are balanced without such things. If you look at it though very few items are going to really pump up a monster noticeably. A goblin warrior that can turn his damage into fire and do +1d6 fire once a day? Not really going to break the game...

thalmin · Aug 9, 2010

The upcoming Red Box uses treasure parcels.

Connorsrpg · Aug 9, 2010

Another for the 'liking of parcels'. HOWEVER I also love randomness.

I have a d20 roll for each level. 1-10 are the parcels as outlined in the DMG. 11-20 inc new ideas they have added, such as boons. Other entries include rituals, alchemical items, consumables, etc. I also have an entry for an item 'advancing', so instead of giving out a new parcel, one they have upgrades. (Obviously you tie this into the story. Basically an items power grows as the wielder's does).

So yes, I don't make sure that EVERY parcel is dealt out over the level. I simply make sure that about 1 parcel comes with a level encounter, or roughly 10 over the level. Some may double-up, others not come up at all, but there are still 10 parcels of the appropriate level.

Another thing I do to add randomness in for MIs. If a MI is outlined in a module I roll 1d6: 1-2 = treasure from module; 3-4 = random treasure of same level; 5-6 = item from player's wishlist.

So players do post 'wishlists' for me ahead of time (or at least some item they want), and there is 'a chance' it will appear. My PCs aren't decked out totally in items they choose, but there is a chance something may appear. Seems to work well. Our group likes surprise items, and unlike other groups we haven't found MIs boring at all. Maybe it is best when all players don't know about all MIs??

Tony Vargas · Aug 9, 2010

Well, I never whined for any of those things... ;(

But, I'm particularly concerned about 'less errata.' I want exactly as much errata as it takes to fix problems with published material. If something's broken or nonsensical or worthless, I don't want it to stay that way because they're "trying to avoid too much errata."

Now, 'less errata' in the sense of less /needed/ because there's more quality going in, I could get behind - if that's achievable. The longer a game like this is out, the more likely each new element is to interact in a broken way with something that has come before.

Tying their own hands when it comes to fixing such mistakes would be bad.

OTOH, if they really /had/ gotten into a system of putting out broken stuff so that the munchkin set would run out an buy it, letting them have their fun with it for a few months then issuing errata and releasing a new book with more broken stuff.... well, I suppose on a moral level I won't mind seeing that go.... but it sure seemed like a sweet model to me. They got to sell books, and we (eventually) got good material.

vagabundo · Aug 9, 2010

I use the treasure parcel system - without withlists - and Asmors Quartermarter treasure generator.

I do generate "player" times the magic items - so x4 for my group. It means a lot more magical treasure is given out, but my players seem to love it, and they get some very odd items sometimes.

WotC is Listening

Greatwyrm

Been here a while...

FireLance

Legend

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight

ExploderWizard

Hero

dvvega

Explorer

AbdulAlhazred

Legend

thalmin

Retired game store owner

Connorsrpg

Adventurer

Tony Vargas

Legend

vagabundo

Adventurer

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